Keela Munro vs Paramo Alta III jacket - your views?
- Thread starter Joycey
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Come along to the amazing Summer Moot (21st July - 2nd August), a festival of bushcrafting and camping in a beautiful woodland PLEASE CLICK HERE for more information.
Yeah, seen that online, but it looks like it's slimmed down and built for hard and fast activities - I want something waterproof and tough to sling on in the woods.
I like the sprayway brand for the value, can normally be had at Tk maxx for about £40 a jacket. It doesn't need to be anything fancy, just something to keep the rain off and not cook you. If you don't mind replacing it more often sports direct etc.. will sell thin waterproofs that also work well.
The alta is good, plenty of vents at the top of the arms etc.. and the breathability is better than goretex like fabrics. But its a warm jacket, i'd say heat wise its the equivalent of adding a 100g fleece jacket on, so you really need to strip layers to be comfortable. Make sure to keep on top of the maintenance too, or eventually it'll wet out. The cut of the arms is excellent also for me, good freedom of movement.
Tonyuk
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Well, the Bento and Fuera use the same outer layer as the standard coats, not the super light weight material used in their lighter weight versions, so toughness isn't going to change much. I really don't like smocks much either, but I have ended up with three of the Paramo ones (all on sale) since they ticked most of the other boxes. Would love something cut like the Velez but light weight with a full zip and useful pockets.
Paramo aren't really waterproof in the same sense as Goretex shells, more like they use layers to manage moisture with the end result that very little if any gets through all the layers to reach the wearer. The single layer windproofs can be paired with a fleece to give similar protection, if one is okay with the idea that the fleece won't be kept bone dry by the outer layer.
Paramo aren't really waterproof in the same sense as Goretex shells, more like they use layers to manage moisture with the end result that very little if any gets through all the layers to reach the wearer. The single layer windproofs can be paired with a fleece to give similar protection, if one is okay with the idea that the fleece won't be kept bone dry by the outer layer.
Sorry to take this off on a slight tangent, but I've found these articles interesting and educational when considering waterproofing, breathability, "running hot" etc. - offered in case they help you in your choice:
Andy Kirkpatrick
Andrew Skurka
Andy Kirkpatrick
Andrew Skurka
I have used the velez adventure lite for a few years. It's a good jacket, best for colder conditions or when you're not doing massively high energy output exercise because it is after all still a lined garment, though the hood isn't (the hood is more showerproof than fully waterproof). The side zips are like a Buffalo, but without the useful hand warmer pockets (the paramo ones are inside the shell so you have to have the side vent zips open a long way to get your hands in and that doesn't work particularly well IMO). Like most Paramo tops it's not the most robust fabric, but will sew up if torn without major damage to waterproofing qualities.
One option I use is the excellent paramo Taiga fleece with the Paramo Bentu showerproof shell over it. Last weekend it was raining off and on. When ascending hills in the rain (light rain rather than torrential), the shell over a merino base kept me dry and I didn't overheat. Add the fleece in colder conditions to make a full-on Paramo waterproof combination as the fleece is made from the same stuff as the pump liner in their waterproofs. This set-up is pretty flexible IMO. The drawback is if the rain starts off light and you put the shell only on, then the rain gets heavier, taking the shell off to add the fleece underneath is a weakness.
The Paramo Cyclo jacket is a half way house, a Paramo shell with a mesh liner making it lighter than the full coat but more waterproof than the showerproof shell by itself. It does come in blue or dayglo yellow and is a cycling jacket really. It has better ventilation than the velez, a better hood, plus much better pockets if you can stand the cycling rear pocket.
For use in the woods I'd revert to my ventile. The fabric is way tougher than Paramo.
Hope that's useful.
Paul.
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One option I use is the excellent paramo Taiga fleece with the Paramo Bentu showerproof shell over it. Last weekend it was raining off and on. When ascending hills in the rain (light rain rather than torrential), the shell over a merino base kept me dry and I didn't overheat. Add the fleece in colder conditions to make a full-on Paramo waterproof combination as the fleece is made from the same stuff as the pump liner in their waterproofs. This set-up is pretty flexible IMO. The drawback is if the rain starts off light and you put the shell only on, then the rain gets heavier, taking the shell off to add the fleece underneath is a weakness.
The Paramo Cyclo jacket is a half way house, a Paramo shell with a mesh liner making it lighter than the full coat but more waterproof than the showerproof shell by itself. It does come in blue or dayglo yellow and is a cycling jacket really. It has better ventilation than the velez, a better hood, plus much better pockets if you can stand the cycling rear pocket.
For use in the woods I'd revert to my ventile. The fabric is way tougher than Paramo.
Hope that's useful.
Paul.
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Thanks Paul - I've got my mountain walking waterproofs sorted, so was really looking for a lower level, lower activity top for the woods. Basically I want a replacement jacket for my ridgeline smock. Is ventile really that waterproof? What top have you got?
I have the Country Innovation Rover double ventile. Not cheap, but if you read the reviews, they're extremely waterproof in prolonged heavy rain, they last and last, have great pockets and hood, they're very soft coats, quiet and robust. Country Innovation list Bushcraft as one of the intended uses. It weighs a lot more than any Paramo however and I wouldn't wear it for hill walking other than in the snow and even then not really steep stuff, it's just too warm. For me it's a cool/cold weather only coat. Here's a link to the review page.....51 reviews, several pretty in depth long term reviews which talk about the pros and cons in different usage situations.
http://www.countryinnovation.com/review/product/list/id/2/category/4/
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http://www.countryinnovation.com/review/product/list/id/2/category/4/
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The bentu is my current favourite paramo so much so I have them in both blue and green lol bought both fleece and jacket in both colours 90% of the time it's all I wear these days my paramo halcon will come out when the weather gets colder and wetter but the bentu is more than enough for most of the year.
perfect fit on me added elastic to the fleece cuffs that was my only gripe, if you can find somewhere to try them on and get the size right they're well worth the money imo either fleece or shell packs down to nothing depending on weather I wear one carry one colder days wear both. Perfect amount of pockets for me too a much more versatile jacket than just a standard paramo. Like I said earlier I have most of paramos jackets and trousers because I've developed an addiction lol if I could only have one it would be the bentu combo
perfect fit on me added elastic to the fleece cuffs that was my only gripe, if you can find somewhere to try them on and get the size right they're well worth the money imo either fleece or shell packs down to nothing depending on weather I wear one carry one colder days wear both. Perfect amount of pockets for me too a much more versatile jacket than just a standard paramo. Like I said earlier I have most of paramos jackets and trousers because I've developed an addiction lol if I could only have one it would be the bentu combo
Joycey, I tried posting a reply twice yesterday, but for some reason its not appearing yet. I have the 'Rover' double ventile coat by Country Innovation. It's superbly designed and made, tough, very waterproof but really only any good for low energy stuff and cool/cold weather. They list Bushcraft as one of the things it was designed for. Google for it and read the 51 reviews, some of which are long term tests (10 years) from usage in different countries and different activities. Most agree it's the best coat they've ever had. Country Innovation do a smock too if that's your preference (and ventile trousers) but it's not a double ventile like the Rover. Hope that helps.
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Interesting thing about my Ventile BCUK coat, it has worn through in numerous places around the wrist, from nothing more than rubbing against my side as I walk, or rubbing against my skin! Sure it is tougher in the woods against brambles than my Paramo, but my Alta has been with me five years longer, has been worn more often, and has no wear holes at all.
They've just released a velez jacket if you have a google around, I've got the helki jacket which falls somewhere between my Alta2 and velez smock but as my previous comment the bentu combo is the one I use most these days.
I do like the sound of the Bentu combination but I have a question: does the Bentu Windproof jacket only become waterproof with the addition of the Bentu - or other Paramo fleece or does it function pretty well with other non-Paramo fleeces?
The Paramo fleeces (at least the Taiga that I use) are made of the pump liner from the waterproof. The advantage is you have a showerproof shell and a showerproof fleece that can be worn individually or combined as a waterproof. other fleeces are not made the same way to my knowledge. It's a very flexible combination that you can get in green, but it's not a terribly robust material, though it's much easier to do repairs than on a laminated fabric.
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I reviewed the Bentu Jacket and Fleece on this forum [thread=135402]here.[/thread].
Since writing that review I've also got a Fuera ascent jacket. It's the same fabric as the bentu, but lacks the extra lining in the hood and shoulders, so isn't as water proof on it's own. But as a wind proof it's excellent, with the added advantage of plenty of venting zips. I pair it with the bentu fleece when I need something more waterproof.
If you're worried about Paramo running hot, go for the two part systems like the Bentu or Enduro. It gives you added flexibility.
As for fit, for years magazines complained that the fit of Paramo was "boxy" and "baggy", and the result is they have "improved" the fit to make sure that it doesn't fit many people that used to buy Paramo... Just be greatful you don't have tits, it seems the paramo ladies range is designed for stick insect pixies... grumble grumble.
Just make sure that you keep your Paramo clean, retreat it regularly, and you should be happy.
J
Are you sure about that? Yes membrane based fabrics like Goretex and eVent do not perform very well once the temp drops far below freezing, but Paramo being non membrane based is known to function well in cold climbs. This is why it was selected both by the British Antarctic Survey and The Coldest Journey as their clothing system of choice.
The bentu windproof has a lined hood and shoulders making it reasonably shower proof on the upper side. The sleeves and rest of the body are unlined, and as such not as waterproof. Usually if it's warm enough you're only wearing the windproof, if it rains, you're still warm enough not to care about damp sleeves. If it's really wet, chances are it's cool enough to warrant the fleece as well.
J
Quixoticgeek answered it pretty well to be honest about the windproof it's shower proof for a pretty good shower but you'll get damp in a downpour in my experience.
I've never tried it with another fleece so I can't really answer but together as a combo they're so versatile as I said earlier pretty much all I wear these days and I've got more jackets than most branches of Cotswold outdoors lol. In fact if I'm not mistaken it was quixoticgeek's review of the bentu combo a while back that convinced me I needed to buy both colours
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