Is "preparedness" a state of mind?

[Falstaff]

I suspect it come down to a particular form of thinking skills, not intelligence, and a certain degree of insecurity.
Not everybody who does camping, walking or bushcraft considers, or is concerned about, potential negative events. They just like to get out there and enjoy it, and do not consider or concern themselves about what-if's. Sometimes to the extent that they then need rescuing.
I would suggest that most folk are relatively happy in their personal life-rut, and do not want to consider other factors unless and until, they are forced to.
Arguably they are happier and less stressed, and more or less content that way. Even if it is raised as a potential, even a near certain one, they prefer not to get stressed considering it, and leave it to fate.

Others consider that a losing proposition , and are prepared to make at least mental plans, and/or actual ones. That might range from laying in some extra loo rolls, to building a luxury bolt-hole in another country.

 

[Falstaff]

@Gloworm:
"Nah, 25L container, sawdust covering material. One treck every week to the community hot compost heap/bucket washing station."

But, but think oh think of the arboreal forest loss! There'll be nothing left to hug!
Human lazy nature being what it is, it'll get dumped around the corner, or revert to Victorian times of just tipping it out of the window onto the folks below.

 

[Pattree]

Victorian???????
Check your time line!

One of the problems of “Pepper” Thinking as I read it is that it seems to imply that the prepared individual will be acting alone.

Take a look at an aerial view of Birmingham - population 2.7 million.

Now imagine/calculate it’s daily water and food consumption.

That’s quite a lot of 25L containers.
Many of us couldn’t carry them 6K out of the centre to the “dump” whatever that is. I couldn’t. Would anyone be willing to lug my waste, your gran’s, the local hospital’s?

Or is prepping all about the survival of young fit males? An almost perfect recipe for gang warfare (I’ve worked in Somalia. If that is how anyone thinks it’s going to be then I would advise women to emigrate now!).

 

[TeeDee]

I have a solution for getting rid of Human waste.
Once set up , it works a treat.

 

[Chris]

I have a solution for getting rid of Human waste.
Once set up , it works a treat.



View attachment 96663

A trebuchit..?

 

[TeeDee]

A trebuchit..?

Let that s##t fly...

Or

Set loose and release the Logs of war!!

 

[Falstaff]

I'm crap at history/dates and Pattree is right, no wonder the Govt wants to prop up the water companies no matter what.
Is that trebuchet the one in Wales that they sometimes lob rocks into a lake with, to show how far it flies?

 

[Pattree]

When giving environmental lectures we used to explain that there is no such place as “away”. Everything lands somewhere. I think you’d be quite literally “getting your own back” pretty soon in this crowded little island

 

[GreyCat]

I suspect it come down to a particular form of thinking skills, not intelligence, and a certain degree of insecurity.
Not everybody who does camping, walking or bushcraft considers, or is concerned about, potential negative events. They just like to get out there and enjoy it, and do not consider or concern themselves about what-if's. Sometimes to the extent that they then need rescuing.
I would suggest that most folk are relatively happy in their personal life-rut, and do not want to consider other factors unless and until, they are forced to.
Arguably they are happier and less stressed, and more or less content that way. Even if it is raised as a potential, even a near certain one, they prefer not to get stressed considering it, and leave it to fate.

Others consider that a losing proposition , and are prepared to make at least mental plans, and/or actual ones. That might range from laying in some extra loo rolls, to building a luxury bolt-hole in another country.

Indeed. My work in compliance tells me that most folk are indeed happy in their little groove, and woe betide anyone who wants to spoil that sense of comfort with some unpaltable facts! The higher up in the management heirarchy someone is, the less appetite for such facts in my experience (with some exceptions, who stand out precisely because they ARE exceptions). The number of strategies that folks use to hide such unpalatable facts from themselves is.... breathtaking.

Victorian???????
Check your time line!

One of the problems of “Pepper” Thinking as I read it is that it seems to imply that the prepared individual will be acting alone.

Take a look at an aerial view of Birmingham - population 2.7 million.

Now imagine/calculate it’s daily water and food consumption.

That’s quite a lot of 25L containers.
Many of us couldn’t carry them 6K out of the centre to the “dump” whatever that is. I couldn’t. Would anyone be willing to lug my waste, your gran’s, the local hospital’s?

Or is prepping all about the survival of young fit males? An almost perfect recipe for gang warfare (I’ve worked in Somalia. If that is how anyone thinks it’s going to be then I would advise women to emigrate now!).

Or take a look at the Birmingham response to the build up of rubbish from the strikes involving rubbish-collectors.

The black bags just mounded up on corners nearby. Or, if someone had a car, they were driven a bit away and dumped on someone else's corner. In a very few places, there was a level of community organisation.

Water: we'd get a mix of solutions as happens in the shanty towns all over the world, especially in cities. A mix of drinking unsafe but nearby water and buying from water sellers- enterprising souls who bring some water around on say a salvaged bike or trailer repurposed for hand-towing. Possibly with gang protection (charge a fee for protection), or maybe the gangs doing it. You have to remember that the existing "bad guys" are also highly commercially astute, I suspect the drug gangs would by and by large pick up the trade as they already come with the combination of commercial savvy and propensity for casual violence that would equip them to expolit the situation.

In some communities, the ties of strong religion and social codes would probably lead to a communal solution- e.g. the Sikh communities who are accustomed to serving Langha at the Gurdwara and have an ethic of self-defence of the whole community.

(This is all just an extension of current behaviours, so I don't see it as unrealistic).

In smaller towns and rural areas, it would probably be different. Depends on the level of resource and on the level of existing criminality/gang presence I guess.

GC

 

[Falstaff]

Compliance! Oh my, you will be upsetting the senior managers. My experience also, the higher up they are the less they think that the rules apply to them. e.g. Rachel Reeves wanting to sit in on a meeting between BoE and Revolut to ensure they got their banking licence. - and being rebuffed.

I think your summary is right. I understand that in some places, bits of S.Africa & Haiti I think, the gangs do indeed control water and food supply. It sounds as if Pattree might have some first hand knowledge of that?
I had forgotten the classic example of Birmingham re waste - so we don't have to speculate, we now know how it would go.

 

[Broch]

One of my 'prep' actions is to make sure our septic tank is kept empty - with only two of us that would give us at least two years of use

In out-of-the-way rural areas like ours, I think we would make a lot of use of the incinerator; at night of course so others can't see the smoke from a distance.

 

[GreyCat]

One of my 'prep' actions is to make sure our septic tank is kept empty - with only two of us that would give us at least two years of use

In out-of-the-way rural areas like ours, I think we would make a lot of use of the incinerator; at night of course so others can't see the smoke from a distance.

Indeed. And composting loos easier in a rural area..... especially if one can burn the loo roll which is the otherwise difficult part of a composting loo. [When I had a composting loo in my camper van, for a no. 1, I had scraps of cloth that I used, then washed out, whereas for number 2's, the cheap thin loo roll that one could liberate from hotels is preferable as it decomposes easier, vinegar spary to keep things fresh].

In the winter, some things are easier anyway- e.g. paper or cardboard wrappings go onto the Rayburn, especially if it's a kitchen towel soaked in fat!.

GC

 

[ONE]

with only two of us that would give us at least two years of use

What size is the tank? That sounds quite small for two, unless we're being sold a pup by the people I've been speaking to.

 

[Broch]

What size is the tank? That sounds quite small for two, unless we're being sold a pup by the people I've been speaking to.

I was understating the capacity - it lasts a lot longer than two years

 

[Glow_worm]

What make a ( small? ) section of Western society think these low tier basic requirements need to be consider and proactively managed outside of the normal anticipated supply chains the rest of the society take as granted?

Mindset-Culture-Approach are all terms just to describe an idea - but what is , and why is the idea incepted in the 1st place? If its a singular event we have all experienced , I could understand , but it seems to be a very varied learned behaviour.

It's fascinating, isn't it? I find the observation of prepping psychology, approaches, and mindsets just as interesting as the practical side of being as self reliant as possible.

As you say, all manner of things can trigger it- I am sure some people are naturally hard wired that way, others will be affected by upbringing, or have experiences, or be influenced by others, or just want to feel part of a movement.... And lots more besides no doubt.

 

[Laurentius]

I would say that one aspect of being a sincere prepper would be being prepared for the consequences of the lack of preparedness of everybody else and to be prepared for the probability that other preppers are targeting each other in a dog eat dog race for survival. Whatever, we can't all be Stig of the Dump.

 

[Glow_worm]

One of the problems of “Pepper” Thinking as I read it is that it seems to imply that the prepared individual will be acting alone.

Absolutely, and assuming no one else will be running to the 5 acre wood just outside Birmingham to attempt to live off the land....

My comments about composting human waste were clearly stated to be easy and straightforward outside of towns and cities.

But it certainly could be done in densely populated areas with organisation, collapse of society or not. The only difference would be whether is was paid employment or a community recognising it as necessary for survival. Look how ancient cities functioned in that respect, plenty of clues there. And with modern scientific knowledge, materials and technology, large scale hot composting could happen in a built up area without health or hygiene issues. Plenty of people make a living emptying bins, crawling around in sewers, unblocking drains, cleaning septic tanks/micro sewage treatment plants etc.

 

[Pattree]

Would you?

 

[TeeDee]

Would you?

Would they what ??

 

[Glow_worm]

I take it you're asking if I would be involved in a job of dealing with human waste?

Not something I'd choose for an everyday bread earner if I had the choice, however if I live in a densely populated area and there was a major disaster, I'd happily pitch in dealing with human waste if it meant the area remained healthy enough to survive in. Although I could contribute far more specialist skills in a crisis situation I don't regard anything as beneath me. One can't eat chicken without chicken muck and guts being involved somewhere down the line....

Entirely theoretical of course, as obviously that would assume there was a local will to continue, some sort of organised effort to keep things going, no enormous breakdown of order, panic, warzone of gang violence everywhere etc etc...

I've always lived rurally, but have done plenty of communal compost toilet emptying for community projects I have been involved in, have unblocked drains/toilets for neighbours, keep an eye on those with dementia etc. Far calmer and less fraught in the backwaters than a city though, even without the end of society occurring!