Is it safe to use coal in a tent stove?
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I wouldn't have thought so. If you felt that the particular design was safe ask the manufacturer and then you could have a (very very careful) go. Buy a digital CO meter, or at least a tab, and have a safety watcher stand outside. Also, make sure you do it in the mouth of the vestibule, with the vents open and a good draft blowing air out the tent mouth. Whatever you do, don't sleep with it warming your tent. CO is a silent killer and you would not likely notice that you were dying.
Here is some on-line research I did when I worried about my own exposure. It won't keep you safe, but it'll help you to recognise the symptoms.
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45150
Here is some on-line research I did when I worried about my own exposure. It won't keep you safe, but it'll help you to recognise the symptoms.
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45150
There have been several deaths from burning charcoal in tents.
ANY burning fuel can produce carbon monoxide if there is inadequate ventilation. I think everyone should be very careful indeed.
ANY burning fuel can produce carbon monoxide if there is inadequate ventilation. I think everyone should be very careful indeed.
Anything that burns with an orange or yellow flame is giving off significant CO2 and will have to be properly vented, of course.
Some tent stoves are designed to able to burn coal as well as wood. Here's a good comparison by an outfitter who carries ten brands:
http://www.walltentshop.com/CatStoves.html
I've burned coal in both a Four Dog stove and a military surplus round stove. It didn't work well until I figured out that coal had to be elevated on a grill in order to burn completely. If you just shovel it in and let the chunks sit on the ashes, they don't do much. But if you elevate them on a grill, they burn hotter and longer than wood.
Some tent stoves are designed to able to burn coal as well as wood. Here's a good comparison by an outfitter who carries ten brands:
http://www.walltentshop.com/CatStoves.html
I've burned coal in both a Four Dog stove and a military surplus round stove. It didn't work well until I figured out that coal had to be elevated on a grill in order to burn completely. If you just shovel it in and let the chunks sit on the ashes, they don't do much. But if you elevate them on a grill, they burn hotter and longer than wood.
Thanks i think i will!
I will be in a tentipi and they are made so you can have a fire inside although i know there is always a risk and always to respect fire.
Thanks and i will take care and also bring a carbon monoxide alarm.
Oblio13 Thats good to know about elevating the coals but at the end of the day i just want glowing embers (coals) but thanks
I think i will stick to wood.Thanks for all the info and advice its really appreciated
That's good to hear. I bet the 30ppm alarm goes off very quickly. Set it up in your garden and so you don't end up carrying all the extra kit for nothing.
Remember that you can set a gas flame to burn neutral to lean, but coal tends to burn rich.
As long as the stove is designed to handle the hotter fire of burning coal, and is properly vented, there should be no problems. And burning coal does need that extra oxygen from a raised grate to burn well. If the coals get covered with ashes, that insulates them and you lose heat - or they just go out.
Any fire inside a tent needs to be properly vented. Even using just glowing coals from an outside wood fire still need to be vented. There are only a very few specifically designed stoves that burn clean enough that they do not need venting, but they are few and hard to find.
The problems people have had with charcoal is from not having their stove vented to the outside of the tent. Or from doing a bunch of cooking inside the tent using a gas stove. The burners all give off CO and CO2 gases. And a tent limits those gases to a small area - which then concentrates them a lot.
So there should be no problems burning coal in a properly designed and vented stove to heat your tent.
Just my humble thoughts to share. Take them as such.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
Any fire inside a tent needs to be properly vented. Even using just glowing coals from an outside wood fire still need to be vented. There are only a very few specifically designed stoves that burn clean enough that they do not need venting, but they are few and hard to find.
The problems people have had with charcoal is from not having their stove vented to the outside of the tent. Or from doing a bunch of cooking inside the tent using a gas stove. The burners all give off CO and CO2 gases. And a tent limits those gases to a small area - which then concentrates them a lot.
So there should be no problems burning coal in a properly designed and vented stove to heat your tent.
Just my humble thoughts to share. Take them as such.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
Must echo the comments of the grumpy ol' German blacksmith. Coal can be safely burned, just as any other fuel can be safely burned in a stove based tent, if adequate precautions are taken. The danger of CO or CO2 is present regardless of the flame/fuel type, if adequate ventilation is not maintained.
In using wall tents, we have pitched near seams of coal, and simply hauled buckets of coal to the tent. Low quality to be certain, but the volume of coal burnt was very small in comparison to the wood required. A close friend weathered 10 days on the eastern slope of the Rocky Mts by burning coal, during this time the daily high never surpassed -45C . They read their books twice and rarely ventured beyond the tent other than to gather coal, bring snow for melting, and to answer the call of nature. They ate/slept/lived with a coal fire for 10 days. Afterwards they chided me on not making the time to join them. The intention had been to put up a number of new ice climbing routes in a remote valley, all from the comfort of a hot tent. They didn't climb a single pitch over the course of their stay. The ice was too brittle due to the cold.
Satisfy your curiousity, measure the CO levels by setting up in the back garden. Likely you will find that a very small amount of ventilation will keep everything on a healthy level. Post your results and let us risktakers know how much danger we were truly in. Unless your tents are much more airtight than the ones in our neck of the woods, my suspicion is that you will be just fine.....and warm with a coal powered stove.
Good Luck.
In using wall tents, we have pitched near seams of coal, and simply hauled buckets of coal to the tent. Low quality to be certain, but the volume of coal burnt was very small in comparison to the wood required. A close friend weathered 10 days on the eastern slope of the Rocky Mts by burning coal, during this time the daily high never surpassed -45C . They read their books twice and rarely ventured beyond the tent other than to gather coal, bring snow for melting, and to answer the call of nature. They ate/slept/lived with a coal fire for 10 days. Afterwards they chided me on not making the time to join them. The intention had been to put up a number of new ice climbing routes in a remote valley, all from the comfort of a hot tent. They didn't climb a single pitch over the course of their stay. The ice was too brittle due to the cold.
Satisfy your curiousity, measure the CO levels by setting up in the back garden. Likely you will find that a very small amount of ventilation will keep everything on a healthy level. Post your results and let us risktakers know how much danger we were truly in. Unless your tents are much more airtight than the ones in our neck of the woods, my suspicion is that you will be just fine.....and warm with a coal powered stove.
Good Luck.
Hi
ZDP-189, Mike Ameling and Grey Owl thanks for your inputs!
Unfortunately i cant set my tent up in my garden as my garden is to small and the builders (we have working here at the moment) have claimed it as there skip!
My tentipi has ventilation flaps around the sides at the bottom which have guy lines attached so they can be opened so i will probably open them up. I am scared to try using coal (charcoal) but Grey Owl your story has made me think its may be possible...
Mesquite who organised the meet i'm going to on Friday suggested i use coal in the day and wood at night which may be a good option.
I guess i can see what happens in the day with regards to the carbon monoxide alarm and take it from there... well i still haven't made my mind up but i am thinking of doing what Mesquite suggested.
ZDP-189, Mike Ameling and Grey Owl thanks for your inputs!
Unfortunately i cant set my tent up in my garden as my garden is to small and the builders (we have working here at the moment) have claimed it as there skip!
My tentipi has ventilation flaps around the sides at the bottom which have guy lines attached so they can be opened so i will probably open them up. I am scared to try using coal (charcoal) but Grey Owl your story has made me think its may be possible...
Mesquite who organised the meet i'm going to on Friday suggested i use coal in the day and wood at night which may be a good option.
I guess i can see what happens in the day with regards to the carbon monoxide alarm and take it from there... well i still haven't made my mind up but i am thinking of doing what Mesquite suggested.
Out of curiousity, are you questioning the use of coal, as in the dark, dusty stuff that comes from the ground and makes the lungs of miners turn strange colours. Or are you speaking about charcoal (charred wood) that is often used in barbecues?
My stories are of the stuff that comes from the ground, harvested onsite from exposed seams. Charcoal, can't say I have any experience with that stuff. Perhaps it behaves differently?
Anyway, best of luck with your experiments. I shall await the results.
As long as your heating stove has a stove pipe chimney that is stuck out through the tent wall to vent outside you should have no problems - using either coal or charcoal. The danger is from those burning gases given off by any burnable fuel - wood, coal, charcoal, propane, etc. Those all need to be directly vented outside, or they will build up inside your tent and then cause you problems.
A traditional Indian tipi has the whole top open to "vent" the open fire on the ground in the middle of the floor. The whole tipi acts as a chimney. So those CO and CO2 gases won't build up. Plus it has lots of gap around the outside and the door to let in fresh air. The whole "design" of it generally keeps you safe from buildup of harmful gases - although it can still get "smoky" inside.
But you also do need "some" fresh air coming into your tent to replace that being burnt up in your heating stove. Most tents are loose enough to allow air to flow into them - either through special "vents" or around the door opening or where it meets the ground. Some people will take a length of pipe and lay it down from outside the tent and into the inside right in front of their heating stove. This brings in fresh air right next to the stove, and helps cut down on ... cold air drafts across the floor. It also can help the "draft" of the stove and chimney.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
A traditional Indian tipi has the whole top open to "vent" the open fire on the ground in the middle of the floor. The whole tipi acts as a chimney. So those CO and CO2 gases won't build up. Plus it has lots of gap around the outside and the door to let in fresh air. The whole "design" of it generally keeps you safe from buildup of harmful gases - although it can still get "smoky" inside.
But you also do need "some" fresh air coming into your tent to replace that being burnt up in your heating stove. Most tents are loose enough to allow air to flow into them - either through special "vents" or around the door opening or where it meets the ground. Some people will take a length of pipe and lay it down from outside the tent and into the inside right in front of their heating stove. This brings in fresh air right next to the stove, and helps cut down on ... cold air drafts across the floor. It also can help the "draft" of the stove and chimney.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
Hmm Grey owl good point i don't know where my brain is :O i meant charcoal and asked about coal!
Thanks Mike Ameling, if i can get my hands on some pipe today i may do what you suggested if not i think the vents around the Tentipi should suffice as it was made to have fires in it.
Thanks Mike Ameling, if i can get my hands on some pipe today i may do what you suggested if not i think the vents around the Tentipi should suffice as it was made to have fires in it.
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