Instinctive Archery. Your experience please.

[demented dale]

Hello there. I've been doing archery for about 18 months now. I shoot a 35 lb re curve bow and shoot instinctively (target focus, point, release). After about a year I started to see a very noticeable improvement. The problem I am having is consistency. On some days I could give robin hood a run for his money and others I can't hit a cows bum with a banjo. It can be really frustrating. What are other peoples experiences with this form of archery? I have heard that it can take years to get good and consistent. I would like to know I m not alone with this or equally important that, I am, in fact, alone with this.. As ever I would really value your personal and collective experience. Thanks in advance. Dale x

 

[bobnewboy]

1: Join a club and get some coaching. It’s not easy to spot errors in your own form, particularly those errors that creep in with fatigue.

2: Double check your equipment. Depending upon the type and class of archery you’re shooting, you should measure some data points when your setup is shooting well, and then recheck those data at each new session. Strings stretch, servings wear, some arrows lose their spine a bit, and so on and so forth. If nothing else the checks give you a confidence boost.

3: Practice frequently and build confidence but don’t get cocky. It’s easy to start questioning everything including yourself on a bad day, but I only ever found that heaps extra pressure internally. So relax, have a laugh and enjoy the shooting.

 

[demented dale]

1: Join a club and get some coaching. It’s not easy to spot errors in your own form, particularly those errors that creep in with fatigue.

2: Double check your equipment. Depending upon the type and class of archery you’re shooting, you should measure some data points when your setup is shooting well, and then recheck those data at each new session. Strings stretch, servings wear, some arrows lose their spine a bit, and so on and so forth. If nothing else the checks give you a confidence boost.

3: Practice frequently and build confidence but don’t get cocky. It’s easy to start questioning everything including yourself on a bad day, but I only ever found that heaps extra pressure internally. So relax, have a laugh and enjoy the shooting.

Thank you for the above comments Bob. i have joined a club and already I've learnt some new things. You are bang on the mark about questioning everything, including myself . I said in my post I found it frustrating. Driving me bonkers would be nearer the mark. I also shoot a compound bow with a target pin which a pretty decent level of accuracy and have been tempted to give up the instinctive shooting and focus on that rather than press on with something that I believe is more challenging, I don't really want to throw the towel in and that's why I asked on here as there's always someone on this forum who has been there and can help and encourage the next person. Thanks again. x

 

[Pattree]

I know nothing but a friend of mine has been using a “stick”* and wooden arrows for many years. I’m not sure that what he does is instinctive but there are nothing like sights or counterweights involved and he’s bloody good.

He shoots an average of fifty a day. Target in his own garden and wild shooting at dummy animals in some woodland.

I’m talking out of my bum but I’m guessing that, for him, it’s like using a catapult - do it long enough and it becomes truly instinctive.

I mess about with pottery and a lathe and like you I have good periods and times when it won’t go right.. I’ve been told to keep a journal - how are things during the good times, what other things were happening around me etc. etc.

*wooden bow. I don’t know the pull.

 

[Broch]

I have shot 'instinctively' since I was a nipper and still have days when things don't go well. The reality is we are a major part of the 'system', if we're not 100% there will be an effect on the result.

By contrast, I have recently been on a course that has taught me 'process' - it's just as frustrating at times - too many things to think about. But, if I practice enough, it will set in muscle memory. Then, I'll go back to my bare bow instinctive shooting but, the plan is, with more consistency.

TBH, 35Lb is a hefty bow to learn with (I know people shoot with a lot more; my long bow is 60Lb); it's much easier to improve technique with a bow you can hold at full draw easily and keep it there - it gives you time to think about the process. You could try, just for the sake of experiment, using something nearer 24Lb.

But, as I said at the start, you are a vital cog in a complex, chaotic, machine - you will have off days - just try and relax and enjoy it.

Sadly, my 50+ year old flat bow broke like twig today - yesterday it was shooting fine.

 

[Athos]

You said your problem is consistency, so there you have it. You’ve already identified what’s going wrong. Instinctive archery is unforgiving of imperfection. Work on your form, I recommend Tom Clum’s videos on YouTube for honing your technique, body mechanics and building a consistent shot sequence. Are you using wooden or carbon arrows?

 

[demented dale]

I have shot 'instinctively' since I was a nipper and still have days when things don't go well. The reality is we are a major part of the 'system', if we're not 100% there will be an effect on the result.

By contrast, I have recently been on a course that has taught me 'process' - it's just as frustrating at times - too many things to think about. But, if I practice enough, it will set in muscle memory. Then, I'll go back to my bare bow instinctive shooting but, the plan is, with more consistency.

TBH, 35Lb is a hefty bow to learn with (I know people shoot with a lot more; my long bow is 60Lb); it's much easier to improve technique with a bow you can hold at full draw easily and keep it there - it gives you time to think about the process. You could try, just for the sake of experiment, using something nearer 24Lb.

But, as I said at the start, you are a vital cog in a complex, chaotic, machine - you will have off days - just try and relax and enjoy it.

Sadly, my 50+ year old flat bow broke like twig today - yesterday it was shooting fine.

thank you. i did consider a lower poundage bow. I actually started (foolishly) with a 50lb bow. You are right 35 is perhaps a bit high for some but I can draw it and anchor with relative ease. The fifty pound was completely impractical to learn with but ho hum. We live and learn. Thanks again. x

 

[demented dale]

I know nothing but a friend of mine has been using a “stick”* and wooden arrows for many years. I’m not sure that what he does is instinctive but there are nothing like sights or counterweights involved and he’s bloody good.

He shoots an average of fifty a day. Target in his own garden and wild shooting at dummy animals in some woodland.

I’m talking out of my bum but I’m guessing that, for him, it’s like using a catapult - do it long enough and it becomes truly instinctive.

I mess about with pottery and a lathe and like you I have good periods and times when it won’t go right.. I’ve been told to keep a journal - how are things during the good times, what other things were happening around me etc. etc.

*wooden bow. I don’t know the pull.

The journal is a good idea. I have used them before when training animals. Thanks for that. I'm on it

 

[demented dale]

You said your problem is consistency, so there you have it. You’ve already identified what’s going wrong. Instinctive archery is unforgiving of imperfection. Work on your form, I recommend Tom Clum’s videos on YouTube for honing your technique, body mechanics and building a consistent shot sequence. Are you using wooden or carbon arrows?

Thank you. I,m using carbon arrows. I have made a note of the video you recommended and will study.

 

[Minotaur]

Check out nockonarchery on youtube as he has some interesting courses.
Also check out the inner game of tennis.

 

[demented dale]

Check out nockonarchery on youtube as he has some interesting courses.
Also check out the inner game of tennis.

thanks x

 

[GreyCat]

I'd also say..... don't overthink it.

Also be clear about what you want to achieve: hitting the target- or enjoyment?

Archery can be very deceptive; I know from experience, went down that rabbithole for a while some (nearly 20) years ago. Joined a club, did the beginner course, got hooked. Went to longbow via trad recurve. Got OK at making longbows/arrows (had good teachers!). Tried the instinctive thing.

Then I got frustrated at not hitting the target very often, and went over to the Dark Side- Compound Unlimited and got Very Serious about it. Did OK at that, got quite a few target awards, was on the Welsh Squad for a season. Then had some bad coaching interventions, my form crashed and I lost heart. Later on, I moved away for a new job, no club in the area so gave up all archery.

About 6 months ago, I was clearing out and found my first trad recurve, my wooden arrows, some half-made footed arrows and a half-finished longbow stave stored carefully under the bed. Rekindled my interest, and I also worked out what had caused my problem nearly 20 years ago: trying too hard.

Now? Well, I can still shoot- you don't lose the form- but not interested club/target archery now. I have access to some land so can have the odd play there, shooting marks.

I have also come to the view that "instinctive archery" is a bit like spinning with a hand spindle: start early as a child, do it every day and generally you'll get quite good (and consistent) at it. But for those of us coming to it later in life, taught technique is a more useful alternative.

However, knowing what you want from it is important. Even the best longbow archers with carefully matched kit miss quite a lot. If you want consistent accuracy- well, a compound with sights/release aid and hand-built and matched arrows, plus coaching (including visualization techniques, biomechanics based techniques and form building exercises) is the way to go. It becomes very competitive (and expensive) then though, and is a very different thing to messing around in the woods with a stick bow.

Incidentally: the good target longbow archers that I knew didn't shoot "instinctively." They usually had their own "marks" even if subconscious (I seem to recall that a single elastic band is permitted as a longbow "sighting aid" but might have misremembered) and would consistently anchor the draw hand even tho only momentarily. The longbow technique looks instinctive because draw and release is usually one movement with little if any hold, but that's because you don't hold a longbow at full draw for more than a moment if you want it to have a long and productive life!

Finally- all archers have good and bad days. When I was shooting compound competitively, I'd go to some tournaments and shoot well, other days I'd do badly, some days just "OK" (for perspective- I was shooting a lot, in those days during the outdoor target season I would be at a major tournament- full FITA or Hereford round- every weekend, plus target practice minimum 3 nights a week). Just if a compound archer is having a bad day, it means they are not getting 8/10 in the gold and (shock horror) even getting some arrows in the blue or black! Some top-level recurve archers aren't far off this, so be realistic of what you're comparing yourself too.

(Sorry that's a long post, but- memories and all that).

GreyCat.

 

[demented dale]

th

I'd also say..... don't overthink it.

Also be clear about what you want to achieve: hitting the target- or enjoyment?

Archery can be very deceptive; I know from experience, went down that rabbithole for a while some (nearly 20) years ago. Joined a club, did the beginner course, got hooked. Went to longbow via trad recurve. Got OK at making longbows/arrows (had good teachers!). Tried the instinctive thing.

Then I got frustrated at not hitting the target very often, and went over to the Dark Side- Compound Unlimited and got Very Serious about it. Did OK at that, got quite a few target awards, was on the Welsh Squad for a season. Then had some bad coaching interventions, my form crashed and I lost heart. Later on, I moved away for a new job, no club in the area so gave up all archery.

About 6 months ago, I was clearing out and found my first trad recurve, my wooden arrows, some half-made footed arrows and a half-finished longbow stave stored carefully under the bed. Rekindled my interest, and I also worked out what had caused my problem nearly 20 years ago: trying too hard.

Now? Well, I can still shoot- you don't lose the form- but not interested club/target archery now. I have access to some land so can have the odd play there, shooting marks.

I have also come to the view that "instinctive archery" is a bit like spinning with a hand spindle: start early as a child, do it every day and generally you'll get quite good (and consistent) at it. But for those of us coming to it later in life, taught technique is a more useful alternative.

However, knowing what you want from it is important. Even the best longbow archers with carefully matched kit miss quite a lot. If you want consistent accuracy- well, a compound with sights/release aid and hand-built and matched arrows, plus coaching (including visualization techniques, biomechanics based techniques and form building exercises) is the way to go. It becomes very competitive (and expensive) then though, and is a very different thing to messing around in the woods with a stick bow.

Incidentally: the good target longbow archers that I knew didn't shoot "instinctively." They usually had their own "marks" even if subconscious (I seem to recall that a single elastic band is permitted as a longbow "sighting aid" but might have misremembered) and would consistently anchor the draw hand even tho only momentarily. The longbow technique looks instinctive because draw and release is usually one movement with little if any hold, but that's because you don't hold a longbow at full draw for more than a moment if you want it to have a long and productive life!

Finally- all archers have good and bad days. When I was shooting compound competitively, I'd go to some tournaments and shoot well, other days I'd do badly, some days just "OK" (for perspective- I was shooting a lot, in those days during the outdoor target season I would be at a major tournament- full FITA or Hereford round- every weekend, plus target practice minimum 3 nights a week). Just if a compound archer is having a bad day, it means they are not getting 8/10 in the gold and (shock horror) even getting some arrows in the blue or black! Some top-level recurve archers aren't far off this, so be realistic of what you're comparing yourself too.

(Sorry that's a long post, but- memories and all that).

GreyCat.

that is a great post and thank you GC. i have decided to put it down for a while and change tactics. Yes I came to it late age 55. Some days I am decent but I can go from robin hood to robin dud in no time and given the amount of practice I have put in, I really should be way better than I actually am. . so I,ve done what you did and started using a compound bow with a single pin sight. Everything improved in less than a minute.
The problem with my instinctive shooting is that I felt like every shot was a guess. I was also aware of how long it was taking. I kept saying to myself there must be an easier way.
.This compound bow is better all round. Ok, it may not be as skillful but I just want to hit the target . There are always several ways to do the same thing. I know how to light a fire with flint but I use a lighter.
Thank you everyone for your input and comments. It was posting this thread that got me thinking and has now set me off in a different direction. xxxxxx

 

[henchy3rd]

On occasions I’d let my arm drop as soon as I let fly.
Hold steady for a second or two as bad habits can creep in.
Not saying you are doing this, but it’s a very common problem.

 

[demented dale]

On occasions I’d let my arm drop as soon as I let fly.
Hold steady for a second or two as bad habits can creep in.
Not saying you are doing this, but it’s a very common problem.

I was guilty of that but i am now very focused on holding the shot. it really helps x,

 

[Minotaur]

One of the interesting things that NockOn does in the first lesson is just shooting the target to start with. Get your form right and then start looking for accuracy.
You could also try the paper plate system from Blackie Thomas. Basically you shoot 3 arrows into a paper plate and then move it further away until you cannot get 3 in a row and that is the range you need to practice at.

 

[GreyCat]

Form is complex. Not sure if the Korean method of archery biomechanics is still the standard taught thing these days. That covered all aspects of stance, bow arm alignment, back tension, anchor release etc. It's very effective but needs careful coaching to get it right. If you're serious about getting good at hitting the target, I suggest form coaching sooner rather than later as it's much more difficult to change enough to improved form once you get "quite good" and hit a plateau.

Be aware of over thinking the target/sighting. "Target panic" is a real thing....... I had a phase where I took the lens out of my sight and used an open loop as I was getting a bit fixated.

Alternatively, for some fun, a horse-bow used with a thumb-release and the arrow on the release hand side of the bow is interesting to try.

GreyCat

 

[demented dale]

great stuff. thanks everybody. just an update. i have put it down till i talk to my teacher at the archery club. in the meantime i am practicing with a compound bow with a sight and have achieved incredible results in a very short space of time, thanks. dale x

 

[LCB]

seems to be old thread but i saw it and previously had a similar problem learning - now been doing instinctive archery for three or four years. if you're not always shooting straight an issue i noticed was making sure you've got the arrow nocked in the same place at the right angle every time - if not then the arrow will twist in flight and change direction regardless of how good your aim is. my recommendation would be finding a way to mark on either side of where the nock is intended to go, just a mark with a sharpie on either side worked for me

 

[demented dale]

seems to be old thread but i saw it and previously had a similar problem learning - now been doing instinctive archery for three or four years. if you're not always shooting straight an issue i noticed was making sure you've got the arrow nocked in the same place at the right angle every time - if not then the arrow will twist in flight and change direction regardless of how good your aim is. my recommendation would be finding a way to mark on either side of where the nock is intended to go, just a mark with a sharpie on either side worked for me

My problem turned out to be cross dominance. I had no sight field shooting right handed with a dominant left eye. I didn't realize until I was shooting a catapult with one eye closed and I thought maybe it was that. I had watched a video on you tube where a professional archer had said "never ever ever close one eye etc"
I found two solutions. Either close one eye or use an open ring sight. I can shoot with both eyes open when I use that. I am pleased to say my shooting is much improved. These shots are from 10 meters and the Robin Hood was a killer shot. The moral of the story? question everything. I clung to what he said for a year and thats why, in frustration. I started this thread. x