In the paddle strokes of the Inuit

[Robson Valley]

The medieval Warm Time lasted from about 1000 - 1100 (call it 0C). Then the temperature dropped -0.4C to -0.8C from 1300 - 1850.

This affected Europe as well as eastern North America. The most abundant evidence comes from dendrochronology.
The wood anatomy ("old growth") from those centuries does show some desirable changes in mechanical and elastic properties.

That temperature change is hardly enough for glacier/ice cap formation but the name has certainly stuck around!

 

[Uilleachan]

Dark age monks traveled seeking out similar ascetic hardships to that which the earlier Desert Fathers' sought in the wilderness of the middle east. Their searching took them up the eastern atlantic seaboard, and then all the way to at least Iceland and probably Greenland and parts of what is now Canada. These weren't one way trips.

That later Norse went a viking following very similar routes was no accident or coincidence, reappraisal of the various Sagas show a good few gaelic personal names, Leaf Ericson's Vineland navigator had a gaelic name.

The Norse had arrived in Britain and Ireland to dominate the sea kingdoms of the north and west, and it looks increasingly likely that they were simply following the monks who'd gone before them. Certainly in the case of Iceland.

As to the origins of those navigation skills that enabled the monks and then the Norse, I'd say they were likely already existent in those sea kingdoms, prior to the arrival of latin and runic scripts.

The mettled road in the part of the world where I'm sat is a most recent development. The first roads here were built to control the north by enabling troop movements to the new network of Forts. Until very recently almost all travel was by boat. If you turn a map/chart of Britain and Ireland on it's side with the west uppermost you'll get the idea.

It could be that the Inuit and other ice dwellers were blown off hence some of them showing up on our shores, but given the fact that they had the knowhow and skills to survive on the open ocean in a small boat, for weeks, I think it highly unlikely they had no sense of direction.

 

[boatman]

I understand that much of northern europe had a 'mini ice age in medieval times and perhaps the ice sheet was much further south than now. So if they were inuit and got lost at sea or drifted off on an ice sheet, they were just lost and simply looking for somewhere to land??

Shame they didn't come on purpose = we could have planted a flag and claimed the UK as Indian Land!!!

Inuit claiming something as Indian land?!

 

[Robson Valley]

The "indians" and the Inuit share the same four basic haplotypes of mitochondrial DNA/ maternal inheritance.
That extends as far south as the native populations of Tierra del Fuego.
Interesting that there is a 5th type in eastern North America, Scandinavian in origin,
as that implies maternal inheritance as well.

 

[Tengu]

I still think its a red herring and wont think otherwise without DNA

(And as I said, that could mean other things)

 

[forrestdweller]

The "indians" and the Inuit share the same four basic haplotypes of mitochondrial DNA/ maternal inheritance.
That extends as far south as the native populations of Tierra del Fuego.
Interesting that there is a 5th type in eastern North America, Scandinavian in origin,
as that implies maternal inheritance as well.

considering that the vikings definitely reached north america and many others likely as well not surprising... (although my history teacher considered my remark about coloumbus not being the first european in the americas as nonsense when the so-called "age of discoveries"" was subject at school.....)

 

[Leshy]

considering that the vikings definitely reached north america and many others likely as well not surprising... (although my history teacher considered my remark about coloumbus not being the first european in the americas as nonsense when the so-called "age of discoveries"" was subject at school.....)

Absolutely correct!
I suspect your history teacher never heard of the "cocaine mummies" either...

A quick Google search, will bring a wealth of evidence that indeed Columbus was NOT the first to discover the Americas...

Coca leaf residue was found on some Egyptian mummies and its almost certain that coca leaf originated from central and south America.

Also the similarities between the culture and traditions (as well as physical features) of the Mongolian nomadic tribes, with the American 1st nations is such, that I would speculate (there may or may not be evidence...) they share their origins.

But I'm slightly off topic and way off course here, apologies .

I'll sit back down and listen now.

 

[Robson Valley]

The Vikings. The Scandi haplotype shows that there was a Viking woman, away back when, in native North American biological history.

 

[boatman]

The "indians" and the Inuit share the same four basic haplotypes of mitochondrial DNA/ maternal inheritance.
That extends as far south as the native populations of Tierra del Fuego.
Interesting that there is a 5th type in eastern North America, Scandinavian in origin,
as that implies maternal inheritance as well.

No deadly rivalry between Indians and Eskimos? Eskimo, called that by Indians as a disparaging term.

 

[Toddy]

Much like the Europeans then ?
English/Welsh/Scots/Irish/French/German/Belgian/Swedish/Finish/.…….the list goes on and on, but they're all 'European' and share genetics.
Come to think on it so do the Jewish and Arabs, the Greeks and the Turkish.

Funny old world sometimes, isn't it ?

M

 

[Leshy]

Much like the Europeans then ?
English/Welsh/Scots/Irish/French/German/Belgian/Swedish/Finish/.…….the list goes on and on, but they're all 'European' and share genetics.
Come to think on it so do the Jewish and Arabs, the Greeks and the Turkish.

Funny old world sometimes, isn't it ?

M

Well said...

😀

 

[Robson Valley]

More likely, 'eskimo' is a simplification of french words which mean: "eaters of raw meat."

Inuit is the plural = the people. Inuk is the singular for 'a person.'

 

[Tengu]

I thought it was an Objway?

Anyway, this is all irrelevant, -Finmen are Scandanavian, -any Orcadian storyteller will tell you so.

Just because they have kayaks, -doesnt mean a thing, -lots of folk use kayaks.

(However, the Finmen could eskimo roll.)

 

[boatman]

Bloody Falls Massacre might be worth looking up for how different groups got along sometime.

 

[Leshy]

Bloody Falls Massacre might be worth looking up for how different groups got along sometime.

The title kinda gives it away... No guessing needed for how they got on.

 

[Robson Valley]

Time will tell, I suppose. Later this afternoon, I'll be posting my own DNA sample for testing.
Interesting heritage rumors in the family history which aroused my curiosity.
No one left to ask, as I'm now the oldest member of the family.

 

[forrestdweller]

Absolutely correct!
I suspect your history teacher never heard of the "cocaine mummies" either....

to be honest: i didn't hear of them until now, either and there have been some new discoveries made since the days i was locked into this horrible institution called "school".... . But thor heyerdals book about his " ra" expedition wre already around for quite a while by then.... .not to mention a long list of both european and east asian (chinese etc.) and possible hawaiian contacts before columbus.... .not even the ancestors of todays indigenous population were the first to discover america....

sorry for going again, rant over....

 

[boatman]

Medieval fisherman were well aware of something over there with their fishing activities on the Grand Banks etc. How early they were there is unknown at present. Then there are the suggested walrus hunters who followed declining herds from Europe to Newfoundland and maybe beyond. See Farley Mowat The Farfarers/The Alban Quest. If we knew about Them in North America then it is likely they were informed about Us in Northern Europe.

 

[forrestdweller]

for those interested (and with 90min to spare) :
https://m.youtube.com/?reload=7&rdm=27crb75iy#/watch?v=ZOLT6ElK6AE

(in case the link doesn't work search for "curse of the axe" on youtube)

didrik pining is another candidate for european contact with north america before columbus.

 

[Uilleachan]

Lots of different strands here. Finnmen might well have been Sea Sami from Norway. Some Inuit might have been taken aboard whalers and cast off later. Such a trip would have been possible from Greenland. There was an ingenious indigenous invention to evacuate waste. Basically an open bag that could be used then the top closed and the bottom opened which led directly into the sea. Or use a sealskin bag and empty it out the top of the kayak.

Sadly one of the kayaks found on the East Coast was given by a museum to a group of kayakers as a play boat and got smashed up in the sea.

It is also possible that there were indigenous kayakers in Britain. With a friend I built a possible Bronze Age kayak from the excavation of a grave in Dalgety, Fife.

This is an excellent book on the subject

Yes, a good read that.

Just a couple of more points to add to what you've said above, off all the kayaks held at one time or other by various universities organisations etc. and described two were of slightly different shape to the majority but sound very similar to each other, and one of those was was ribbed in eurasian pine that showed every sign of having been grown in a northern latitude or at altitude, the other being lost to history. So there's at least one example that didn't come from canada/greenland.

Oh, and the recorded descriptions of mermaids and mermen do rather suggest a kayaker sat in a semi submerged kayak when viewed in that context.

Sliochd nan Ron folklore too, shouldn't be ignored.