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[C_Claycomb]

I was wondering about the tracking aspect.
Without doing research it occurred to me that right now, if the government wish to know about someone, they must collate data from many sources. Phone, credit and debit card, HMRC, which uses a different ID, which isn’t automatically tied to your phone or credit card. It takes effort and time, hence money, and isn’t done for just anyone.
Digital id that is required in order to receive pay, that is used for all online age verification, creation of all accounts and taking out all contracts, tied to the phone, that has got to make tracking movements, activity, preferences and opinions much easier.

Then I watched what The Blackbelt Barrister had to say. Interesting and I recommend.

 

[Chris]

Here is a recent video by a barrister where he discusses the digital ID system.

About a week ago he also made two other previous videos where he discusses the questionable legality of the digital ID system too which are even more interesting than this one.

Worth noting that this guy appears to be courting the "Keir Starmer is the antichrist" crowd quite heavily and isn't an unbiased source of legal information.

 

[Chris]

I was wondering about the tracking aspect.
Without doing research it occurred to me that right now, if the government wish to know about someone, they must collate data from many sources. Phone, credit and debit card, HMRC, which uses a different ID, which isn’t automatically tied to your phone or credit card. It takes effort and time, hence money, and isn’t done for just anyone.
Digital id that is required in order to receive pay, that is used for all online age verification, creation of all accounts and taking out all contracts, tied to the phone, that has got to make tracking movements, activity, preferences and opinions much easier.

Then I watched what The Blackbelt Barrister had to say. Interesting and I recommend.

I don't think it does take effort or time anymore. Storing and processing huge amounts of data has never been easier. Intelligence organisations were doing this 20+ years ago, since then with machine learning/AI there's absolutely no way that they don't easily have access to all this information with minimal ease.

Google and Facebook can track you when you don't even have an account with them, without you even being on their websites. The intelligence services of Five Eyes countries will have access to even more clear pictures of each and every one of us if they so want it, especially given they have direct access to government services.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Ironically, just this last week my mum was talking to me about a friend who volunteers with her to maintain an arboretum on a school’s grounds. She was trying to get everyone DBS checked. This chap has had rather a rough few years, work wise, and doesn’t drive, nor does he have a current passport. We were all a bit stymied about how he was meant to prove his identity for the DBS.

Of course, a passport is not that expensive if you figure it on a per year basis, and I don’t know if an ID that was easier to obtain would be as strong a form of ID.

At work I was chatting to a colleague from Malta, first whom physical ID cards have been the norm for years. He made what sounded a good case for id cards as an addition to drivers license or passport for proving right to work, but I don’t think he knew about the codes from government to go with a visa.

I might agree with creation of physical cards for those that don’t have another form of photo ID, but I do not like the sound of digital ID on phones. There seems so much that could go wrong, be stolen or be abused, trying to sell an idea as a convenience booster is trying to pitch at the lowest branch of human psyche.

 

[HorseGuy]

Then I watched what The Blackbelt Barrister had to say. Interesting and I recommend.

If you are interested to hear more about what he has to say about the Digital ID this is the video from last week discussing the questionable legality of it.

This is the video discussing why he thinks it is dangerous to our freedoms.

 

[Pattree]

I’m not worried about some big brother looking over my shoulder. As has been said, it’s all out there anyway. I’ve just had my age verified today by pressing a button. (No no! To buy a knife, not for a porn site!!!!)

I have two concerns:
The first is emotional. I’m British, living in Briton. I don’t need anyone’s damned permission to be here and I don’t need a license like a dog.

Second is probably more important:
Some civil servant/algorithm makes a mistake. Do I cease to exist? What hoops must I go through to get it put right?

I was in shock when I registered my father’s death. It would cost nearly a thousand pounds to get my mistake corrected.

 

[Laurentius]

It'd be good if the UK, or just Europe in general, were to sink a lot of funds into developing their own large language model. Devise a commonly owned AI, then Musk, Zuckerberg, Altman etc. can go whistle

I entirely agree, mostly because the current AI models are heavily US biased and trained on US data, ask for information about Birmingham and it will default to Alabama.

 

[Laurentius]

If you are interested to hear more about what he has to say about the Digital ID this is the video from last week discussing the questionable legality of it.

This is the video discussing why he thinks it is dangerous to our freedoms.

I am not a fan of the Black Belt Barrister as his politics to me seem to be rather right wing, however I have enough concerns about this to have signed the petition, and if the PM ignores that he is on a very sticky wicket. What I am personally concerned about all this is it creates an underclass who have no access to anything because they do not have the digital wherewithal. I am not being idle about this either as there are all party parliamentary groups who look at these sorts of things and what is needed is a cross party approach.

 

[Chris]

I might agree with creation of physical cards for those that don’t have another form of photo ID, but I do not like the sound of digital ID on phones. There seems so much that could go wrong, be stolen or be abused, trying to sell an idea as a convenience booster is trying to pitch at the lowest branch of human psyche.

Similar to you, I wouldn't object so much (still a bit) to a physical ID card.

My concern is amplified by the ways in which they're trying to push it through. In the early 2000s the excuse was "To stop terrorism!" which was the hot topic of the day. Now they've decided it's "To stop illegal immigration!" which is the current hot topic. It's almost like it's all a load of utter claptrap and they're just trying to ram through unpopular policies by attaching them to emotive topics...

 

[slowworm]

Second is probably more important:
Some civil servant/algorithm makes a mistake. Do I cease to exist? What hoops must I go through to get it put right?

This is my main concern. Over the years I've had to put in a couple of subject access requests to councils. The councils have been appalling and handling them (taking too long to respond and withholding data). The data is often wrong and it has been impossible to correct. Referring cases to the ICO is pointless as, although they agree the data should be corrected, they will not take action in individual cases. Hence my view they are more of a political organisation rather than a service for all.

That and the fact many billions will he spent on something that will not stop illegal working, which seems to be the main reason for bringing them in.

 

[Nice65]

Some civil servant/algorithm makes a mistake. Do I cease to exist? What hoops must I go through to get it put right?

Went very badly for Archibald Tuttle

 

[nigelp]

Ironically, just this last week my mum was talking to me about a friend who volunteers with her to maintain an arboretum on a school’s grounds. She was trying to get everyone DBS checked. This chap has had rather a rough few years, work wise, and doesn’t drive, nor does he have a current passport. We were all a bit stymied about how he was meant to prove his identity for the DBS.

Of course, a passport is not that expensive if you figure it on a per year basis, and I don’t know if an ID that was easier to obtain would be as strong a form of ID.

At work I was chatting to a colleague from Malta, first whom physical ID cards have been the norm for years. He made what sounded a good case for id cards as an addition to drivers license or passport for proving right to work, but I don’t think he knew about the codes from government to go with a visa.

I might agree with creation of physical cards for those that don’t have another form of photo ID, but I do not like the sound of digital ID on phones. There seems so much that could go wrong, be stolen or be abused, trying to sell an idea as a convenience booster is trying to pitch at the lowest branch of human psyche.

…

 

[slowworm]

Lots of people can't afford a smart phone, or can't use one or live in areas where the phone reception is so poor they aren't much use.

 

[Laurentius]

Lots of people can't afford a smart phone, or can't use one or live in areas where the phone reception is so poor they aren't much use.

Absolutely I am sure we all know people like that.

 

[HillBill]

September 29 2025.
Imgur blocks access from UK in response to UK Online Safety Bill.

Edit. 2 Oct.


Easier to cut the UK off than comply with ID check requirements. No access to site and any photos linked on forum show a banner stating not available in your region.

They will catch up. Currently there are a couple of services which offer international age id verification. Are they safe to use... No idea.... But the internet being the internet.... time will tell.

 

[C_Claycomb]

As a slight tangent thought. As I understand it now, the government is proposing that the digital id would not be required by retired people, it would only be required for people in work or applying for work. A concern is that when new technology (that offers convenience benefits to some) becomes widespread, it has consequences beyond those in the original sales brochure.

Debit cards, then chip and pin, then contactless, then the pandemic, then some businesses refusing cash and almost all high street banks closing and their cashpoints with them.

Now the elderly are forced to use on-line banking whether they want to or not, which can be easier than trekking to town, until it isn't. As the keeper of two elderly parents, I know that without my regular IT support, and purchase and maintenance of iPads, they would be in a real pickle. The supposedly helpful on-line prescription service is so foul to try to use with all its codes that even I cannot reliably get it to work, and my 80 and 90 year old parents must once again pick up paper prescription slips from the medical centre. That too was billed as an improvement in convenience, but it is anything but.

 

[Chris]

As a slight tangent thought. As I understand it now, the government is proposing that the digital id would not be required by retired people, it would only be required for people in work or applying for work. A concern is that when new technology (that offers convenience benefits to some) becomes widespread, it has consequences beyond those in the original sales brochure.

Debit cards, then chip and pin, then contactless, then the pandemic, then some businesses refusing cash and almost all high street banks closing and their cashpoints with them.

Now the elderly are forced to use on-line banking whether they want to or not, which can be easier than trekking to town, until it isn't. As the keeper of two elderly parents, I know that without my regular IT support, and purchase and maintenance of iPads, they would be in a real pickle. The supposedly helpful on-line prescription service is so foul to try to use with all its codes that even I cannot reliably get it to work, and my 80 and 90 year old parents must once again pick up paper prescription slips from the medical centre. That too was billed as an improvement in convenience, but it is anything but.

My Dad was an aerospace engineer up until about 10 years ago when he finally retired in his late 60s, so not a stupid guy by any means, yet he could not do online banking without assistance. He'd walk to a cash point and get his balance printed out on a receipt if he wanted to know how much money he had.

I dread to think what I'd have to go through trying to teach him how to set up smartphone apps and linking government IDs using emailed codes and all that.

There's also a not insignificant number of people who are moving away from technology even in younger generations than retirees, as people see how the master/servant roles are reversing with their smartphones and internet services which previously were tools for them, but are increasingly becoming tools for corporations, advertisers and governments at the expense of the user. It's why I'd rather have a physical ID card - I don't like the idea of the government forcing me to use my own property and services that I pay for to do their job for them.

 

[Pattree]

The supposedly helpful on-line prescription service is so foul to try to use with all its codes that even I cannot reliably get it to work…….

Now that is interesting. I find the on line medical applications extremely simple and effective and I am very close to your parents age bracket.

I do find that among my contemporaries there is sometimes a tendency to “switch off” any attempt to learn.
I believe that the technology isn’t the problem; it is the introduction/teaching/guidance that is inappropriate.

An 85+ year old who was living in Britain at birth has already had an identity card.

We may not be in a declared war but in many ways the country is in a worse mess than it was in the 1940’s. Emergency measures are probably reasonable (but not just to rescue a staggering government)

Emergency measures properly introduced by a Government of National Unity might just dug us out of the site.

Edited to add:
I am two minutes returned from my flu jab, my Covid jab was booked for last Thursday and I’ve just picked up my rat poison prescription. All organised in a few minutes from my arm chair at about 01.30 one day last week.

The health centre computer has my life story written into it. My name and DOB is all they need and I didn’t tell them that today, they told me and I just nodded!

 

[Chris]

If anyone believed for a second that these ID cards are actually going to be used to solve any of the problems faced by the general population, perhaps.

 

[slowworm]

As a slight tangent thought. As I understand it now, the government is proposing that the digital id would not be required by retired people, it would only be required for people in work or applying for work.

The problem with that is older people seem to be more trusting of the government and will feel they have to get it.

My elderly mother is currently getting very worried about the 3g turn off as she can't use a smart phone and needs to have a simple phone when out and about. For well over a year she's been sent texts insisting she upgrades and she keeps reading news stories insisting she must have a smart phone etc, etc. I'm hoping she'll be able to use the 2g network but there's not much reliable info out there. The worry these things cause her isn't good for her health.

She also struggles with the NHS as they insist on sending her appointment links in texts that she cannot use. She has told them she can't use a smart phone but they just ignore her.

She does manage her prescriptions via a PC login, I gather there are multiple systems in use so some better than others?