Hunting

[Mutley]

In the UK there is still on going debates about fox hunting, I don't like the idea of killing animals for sports.

I thought it would be intresting to see some of your ideas on this, as Bushcraft does often bring animals for food but not as a sport.

I would like to see Fox hunting with no horses, guns or dogs and give them just a knife - see how many they can catch then.

 

[tomtom]

I would like to see Fox hunting with no horses, guns or dogs and give them just a knife - see how many they can catch then.

for the most part they cant catch them with horses guns and dogs.. they havnt a hope in hell without them..

i think most people here will agree.. if your killing for food and do not intend to waster the animal/bird/fish then its ok.. but killing for the sake of killing is very wrong!

 

[Rob]

One of the kids that Mel teaches once asked her about Fox Hunting.
"Do they eat the fox?" the kid asked.

 

[Ahjno]

I have to agree with Tomtom: it's OK making a kill for food ...
But ... when your out, for say the weekend, is it worth making a kill for food? I find (IMHO) it's not ... Just because modern day rations (etc.) is very lightweight, so hardly any burden.

Might sound faint hearted, but I rather watch that squirrel up in the tree, than setting snares to catch and eat it ... And just take the bit of extra food weight for granted.

When your out on a longer trip, I find it OK to hunt / make a kill for food, especially when you are in remote regions etc.

Hunting for conservation is also OK by me, only take out the weaker / older specimen, so the younger and stronger can survive and flourish.

Just a quick thought

 

[hootchi]

I think everyone expressed about every opinion here .

You can read it if you dare...

Cheers

 

[Mutley]

Aha, sorry.

This thread is discussing more about the way in which they do it compared to Bushcraft techniques - not the actual banning of it.

 

[hootchi]

No worries.

If we go out to specificaly practice I would say we would only kill to feed ourselves.

However, on ray mears bushcraft in yellowstone the trapper was killing for pest control and he uses bushcraft as a means of trapping so a slight difference.

Fox hunters are killing for pest control and they could use some bushcraft techniques when hunting. The differences are very slight.

Cheers

 

[Kim]

.. if your killing for food and do not intend to waster the animal/bird/fish then its ok.. but killing for the sake of killing is very wrong!

We stopped killing for food a long time ago...have you seen how much stuff there is in the supermarket?? We kill for the sake of killing because we're afraid of not having enough, when in fact we have more than enough.

Most of the animal product in your local food store had no need to die, because we don't need that extra big big of steak, or the bacon without the rind on it cos we don't like rind. We've been wasting for years.

Not insulting you personally Tomtom!!! I absolutely know where you're coming from. I too don't like the idea of wasting what's killed, but I can't help but look at what we consume, and what I throw away, and why do I cut the top's off my vegetables...? Why don't I eat them...?? Tis a crazy, crazy old England.

Er, have I taken this off topic...? Sorry...!

 

[Tony]

It's not really off topic Kim, it's a valid point of view that nearly everyone on here will agree with. For some they kill for Food now and then so that they know how to do it in case there is a time of need, which there could well be even in this day and age. The supermarkets get devoid of food within hours if there's something wrong, say a fuel shortage....Anyway, we do waste an awful lot that we shouldn't and that's a huge shame, I'm with you there.

 

[Motorbike Man]

Just my 2p's worth, in the 21st Century, hunting with dogs, i.e. fox hunting, coursing that sort of thing is a totally unncecassary excersise, done purely for fun and this is wrong. Sometimes, usually due to our mis-handling of the environment, some animals like foxes reach pest proprtions and do need to be controlled. In this case, do it with a rifle and make sure you are a good shot. Other animals also need culling, Deer etc, again this is due to our mistakes in the past but is something that now has to be done to keep what ever is left of the balance in the environment. I have no problem at all with someone going out with a rifle to hunt for food or for vermin control, it's hunting with dogs I have a problem with and I strongly feel that this is something that should not be allowed in this day and age.

Just my own personal opinion folks, nothing to do with BCUK or anyone else, just me.

Li'l 'ol me

 

[Toddy]

I do agree with your opinions, but, that said....I was working a country day and one of my friend's lurchers bolted into the next field and came back about 5 seconds later with a rabbit. No fuss, no bother, a quick start and a clean snap, from munching grass to becoming Seumas's dinner in a split second. Hunting with dogs? Who's hunting.... the pink jackets, (the unspeakables in pursuit of the inedibles) or a well trained beast?
A clean quick kill I can accept, to run a beast to exhaustion to be finally torn apart by a gang of dogs who wouldn't brave it one to one is no sport, and badger baiters deserve rabid dogs let loose on *them*.
If the lurcher had been spotted by someone who reported the incident though, the repercusions could have been very bad. I agree with the law in principle, but...

Cheers,

Toddy, (frozen to the quick in a wet, windy field all day and talked hoarse too, but an excellent day)

 

[ronsos]

I ve been thinking a lot about hunting for the past couple of years,hopeing to eventually get a decent air rifle with enough power to take bunnies and tree rats for the pot.Im a typical omnivore ,I suppose in that I would prefer to eat meat that I knew had been humanly killed,but for various reasons,eating most things(apart from fast food burgers etc),mainly because its convient.In my head,Im sure that I could pull the trigger on bunnies etc......and yet some doubt remains-heres why ,boys and girls. I suppose threres a fair few of us ,in the mid seventies,took our first steps into bushcraft with Greenbanks Survival book(cant remember the exact title )I made a snare took it to the nearest woods .Whilst looking for a likely spot,I found a cat in a snare,which even to my 12 year old eyes had taken a long,long time to die.
I realise that snaring and shooting are two different things.I m not criticising anyone who uses snares(for food only).So in my head,Im a big tough scottish hunter gather(sorta),but when I look at air rifles/hunting etc threres a part of me remembering that wee 12 year old crying and having nightmares over a snared cat .I somtimes doubt being able to actually shoot anything.Sorry if Ive rambled a bit,but I wonder how many more in bushcraft are like me. :

 

[arctic hobo]

Watching indigenous tribes hunt is very instructive. We may all say that we hunt for food and that's OK as we're not wasting the animal. You want to go watch the Sami take a reindeer apart - admittedly the animal is sacred to them, but they will redefine 'waste' for you. Not one part of the deer is left, at all. Even if there are parts that aren't used immediately are kept.
I guess there are no bins in northern Scandinavia! It's sometimes funny to see a deer pulling a sled, harnessed with leather and buckles made from the coat and antlers of another

 

[george]

For the past couple of weeks we've had a fox coming by the house in the early evening - she's very pretty with a beautiful brush that's about 50% white to the tip. We call her "the girly fox" and like to see her around. I keep my dogs in when we know she's about because she's got to eat too. She gives us enjoyment watching her and causes no harm here.

However - If she had chosen to live about 5 miles away, where my croft is, and if I thought she would take any of my animals then I'd have to get rid of her. I'd be upset - I hate to see anything being killed whether it's for a good reason or not, but as a direct result of my choosing to raise food animals for myself and my family as ethically as I can, I need to make decisions on how far I will allow nature to take it's course and how much I will intervene. In the case of a fox amongst the ducks and chickens I will have to intervene. In that situation I want the quickest most humane solution possible. If that is using dogs to find the fox and then shooting it then that is (to my mind) the best way.

I kill animals for food or to protect the animals and crops I'm raising for food. Thats it. I don't agree in any way with foxes or other animals being hunted purely as sport and the idea of trophy hunting is abhorrent to me. There is a fine line that needs to be considered when someone shoots pest animals as sport when that helps protect anothers crops etc. but I wouldn't do it myself.

George

 

[MagiKelly]

If I was a Fox I would INSIST that hunting with dogs was the only way of hunting. Like it or not it is probably the closest thing to being hunted by a natural preditor. The hounds get you or they don't. You can't get "winged" by a bad shot and die slowly. The fit and heathy foxes will generally get away while the old and infirm will be taken. Thus the general health of the fox population will be improved.


It is far from natural preditation but it is far closer than any of the alternatives.

 

[trouble]

The debate over hunting in this forum is an interesting one, both in respect of killing for pleasure and for food. I have been a vegetarian since the age of 12 and have always had a great love of nature and I work in conservation. The rare times that I have consumed meat it has been when I have made a kill myself (perhaps once a year or less) and I would not regard myself as squeemish.

Bushcraft philosophy of taking from nature only what you need can be applied to everyday life and is, I believe, incompatible with the culture of consumerism and denial which has lead to development of the meat industry. I think that aquiring, and honing, hunting skills is important but I agree with the idea that these skills are best used when they are really neccesary, such as on longer expeditions where it is impracticle to carry neccessary food in.

Ray Mear's last programme showed an old guy trapping Beaver in Yellowstone, and for what reason? Because of some effect this 'pest' was having on CATTLE RANCHING, an activity which in addition to animal rights issues has also lead to the destruction of wilderness areas and was a principle reason for the dsplacement of native people and destruction of the buffalo! There is a certain irony here when at another point in the programme we find Ray spending time with native people and telling us all about the terrible buffalo cull of the invading white man!

Anyway enough of the rant, I'm keen to know what everyone else thinks.

 

[arctic hobo]

Ray Mear's last programme showed an old guy trapping Beaver in Yellowstone, and for what reason? Because of some effect this 'pest' was having on CATTLE RANCHING, an activity which in addition to animal rights issues has also lead to the destruction of wilderness areas and was a principle reason for the dsplacement of native people and destruction of the buffalo! There is a certain irony here when at another point in the programme we find Ray spending time with native people and telling us all about the terrible buffalo cull of the invading white man!

I thought that was a little dubious too...

 

[Wayne]

I shall keep out of this one as i tend to get alittle heated. i cannot agree with hunting for sport. On a recent trip to Poland there was a German mag in the lodge about trophy hunting. Weyer i think. It had pics of the most beautiful animals elk boar and elephant next to idiots with guns.

I like to stalk animals to see how close i can get for photography. i get the photo and hopefully the quarry never even knows i was there.

However i am aware that in some parts the hunting fees goes towards conservation and the woods around Sussex would probably not be there if it wasn't for the Pheasant shooting. Life is full imponderables.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I fear that this is a subject that tends to bring out the worst in people. The whole arguement about hunting for food or sport, and fox hunting specifically has been beaten to death in one thread already.

Hence I am going to lock this thread.

I was going to let this run on, but I do not believe that anything good will come from further discussion as fairly strong opinions are already being posted.