Hunting knife used as bushcraft knife?

[Toddy]

I think it's the choice factor.

If I have both resources, time and availability of choice, would I choose to use a 'hunting' knife as a bushcraft knife ?

The answer is no.
There's a reason that the woodlore style is so very popular, and it's not all down to imitation or adulation.
It's robust, easily trued up, fits so that it can be used all day without damaging the hands, will work in wet and muddy as well as in dry and hot.
It will do a very good job on fine carving and work, as well as it will take battoning or use to create woodworking features where one would normally use a chisel. It does not scream 'tacticool' or 'nutter survivalist'.
It's almost the 'one ring to rule them all' kind of knife.

It does have issues though; it's heavier than others of similar size, it will need sharpening, it does need dried and oiled/waxed, it is uncompromisingly a 'knife' and that's not always a comfortable thing to carry in our very urban society.
Generally relatively expensive too, unlike the majority of the 'hunting' knives.....probably why we cheerfully recommend moras to newbies.

In a survival situation the knife you have is the one you have to use.
Back to the old adage though, about survival being get the hell out asap and bushcraft being chill the hell out asap
Bushcraft is a huge range of skills though, and 'survival' and hunting are only a subset of them.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[British Red]

As my needs have changed (from hobby user to homesteader), I'm increasingly falling out of love with the Woodlore style - its a compromise in most things - too thick for a slicing knife, too short for a chopping knife. I find myself using bigger and smaller knives more often. Interestingly the thinner bladed Mora knives perform better than the Woodlore type at some tasks. I'm not against the Woodlore type - it a tool designed to operate in the "crude woodworking" space - and can turn its hand to many things. I do find it interesting though that, having a variety of edged tools to hand, the Woodlore style is one I don't reach for.

 

[santaman2000]

santaman2000; here's the 110c, c = the cut away handle version of the 110;

View attachment 23518
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Thanks. It was the "c" that was confusing me; now I understand. And yes, their a bit demanding to sharpen. Their only true fault IMO.

 

[Toddy]

As my needs have changed (from hobby user to homesteader), I'm increasingly falling out of love with the Woodlore style - its a compromise in most things - too thick for a slicing knife, too short for a chopping knife. I find myself using bigger and smaller knives more often. Interestingly the thinner bladed Mora knives perform better than the Woodlore type at some tasks. I'm not against the Woodlore type - it a tool designed to operate in the "crude woodworking" space - and can turn its hand to many things. I do find it interesting though that, having a variety of edged tools to hand, the Woodlore style is one I don't reach for.

At home, here in my garden, and walking and foraging in what I suppose are sort of on the edge of urban woodland, I agree. Something like a small folding opinel is much more easily to hand, tucked in a pocket, and just all round useful.
If I'm working with a knife hard though, then the bushcraft knives are much the better tools, and I do use them often. For cooking, and most veg prep, no, I use a kitchen devil.

I have moras but tbh, they don't get all that much use. The little red stained wooden handled mora classic probably gets most use of all of the ones I have.

Mostly I seem to prefer the necker sized knives, like the WM1 or the smaller ones in the ranges Mark Hill, Everything Mac and Stew make. Comfortable to use long term, very sound, and very capable, and not a burden to carry or quietly keep tucked away, but still to hand, iimmc.

cheers,
M

 

[walker]

I have had a tip snap on a 110 buck folder but that didn't stop me buying a 112 woodsman from buck which is great for general use but when it comes to heavyer use I go to my eka w11 , I also own a very old Mora which lives in the kitchen draw after being retired from bait cutting. Also I would love a better sheath for my eka , is it just me or are the sheaths that come with most knives cr p.

 

[British Red]

It all depends on the task as you say Mary. I keep a Mora in my beekeeping kit as an example - for slicing wax out of frames, removing brace comb its a great tool - I use another for cutting seed spikes, shaping tool handles etc. Some tasks (e.g. chopping the tops off beets) want a longer heavier blade. The ubiquitous Ablett punches way above it weight. I think my problem with the Woodlore is the relative thickness for a 4" blade - the nearest I use is a chisel pointed wrecking knife for crude tasks. I can see its compromises make it the allrounder people look for when carrying a limited toolbox, but when a choice exists I don't find it "best" for much. I suppose my day to day "homesteading" tasks are more varied than the tasks it was designed for.

 

[bushwacker bob]

My 'woodlore' type knife has a 2.7mm thick blade. It works for me

 

[walker]

I don't know about the rest of buck knives but my 112 was made in the USA

 

[Uilleachan]

I think it's the choice factor.

If I have both resources, time and availability of choice, would I choose to use a 'hunting' knife as a bushcraft knife ?

The answer is no.
There's a reason that the woodlore style is so very popular, and it's not all down to imitation or adulation.
It's robust, easily trued up, fits so that it can be used all day without damaging the hands, will work in wet and muddy as well as in dry and hot.
It will do a very good job on fine carving and work, as well as it will take battoning or use to create woodworking features where one would normally use a chisel. It does not scream 'tacticool' or 'nutter survivalist'.
It's almost the 'one ring to rule them all' kind of knife.

It does have issues though; it's heavier than others of similar size, it will need sharpening, it does need dried and oiled/waxed, it is uncompromisingly a 'knife' and that's not always a comfortable thing to carry in our very urban society.
Generally relatively expensive too, unlike the majority of the 'hunting' knives.....probably why we cheerfully recommend moras to newbies.

In a survival situation the knife you have is the one you have to use.
Back to the old adage though, about survival being get the hell out asap and bushcraft being chill the hell out asap
Bushcraft is a huge range of skills though, and 'survival' and hunting are only a subset of them.

cheers,
Toddy

Tacticool, I'm pinching that.

For sure, one would choose the tool most appropriate for the job, given a choice. Cutting wood into rounds, a saw, splitting rounds of wood into staves, a hatchet, splitting big gnarly rounds of wood, a wood splitter, etc.

The real difference between the two types of knife is really that one type tends to be gimmicky machismo-esque mass produced and therefore lower cost and less robust generally. The other tends to be hand crafted and designed with robustness abusability and durability as a feature, and are therefore generally more expensive as a result, more time to make, better materials used.

So as a sweeping generalisation then, the bushcrafter would tend to be the better knife in the opposite roll. Back in my days as a fish filleter, scallop shucker, commercial fisherman & net mending slave, I wouldn't have thanked you for either a type as neither are particularly suited to those types of activity. I still use a knife routinely at work for which a small street legal pen knife is all thats required.

Generally though, the best knife for the job comes down to the one you have with you when the need arises, and for me that tends to be my pen knife.

 

[Toddy]

Tacticool, I'm pinching that.

For sure, one would choose the tool most appropriate for the job, given a choice. Cutting wood into rounds, a saw, splitting rounds of wood into staves, a hatchet, splitting big gnarly rounds of wood, a wood splitter, etc.

...............

Generally though, the best knife for the job comes down to the one you have with you when the need arises, and for me that tends to be my pen knife.

That's the thing though; the 'bushcraft' knife was intended to be able to tackle all of those and not die a sudden snapping death. Maybe not the 'ideal' tool, (a good billhook's an awfully useful tool, and modern saws would have totally changed the ancient world I reckon) but still a very capable tool if used when the brain is engaged the bushcraft knife is a toolmaker too.

An old thread, but kind of the thing I had in mind.
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39163

cheers,
M

 

[Uilleachan]

That's the thing though; the 'bushcraft' knife was intended to be able to tackle all of those and not die a sudden snapping death. Maybe not the 'ideal' tool, (a good billhook's an awfully useful tool, and modern saws would have totally changed the ancient world I reckon) but still a very capable tool if used when the brain is engaged the bushcraft knife is a toolmaker too.

An old thread, but kind of the thing I had in mind.
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39163

cheers,
M

For sure.

I did notice from that link; that once you stopped beating up that lovely wee laminated stainless knife, you made a few wedges, now thats more my style I've a couple of sturdy bushcrafters myself, both by makers who feature on these here BCUK pages, but I won't be thrashing them through my log pile. Just because I can doesn't necessarily mean I have to

I've a couple of pieces of wood out there that would foil even the hardiest blade, and likely break most of them. The greenheart former piles, even a carefully aimed whack grain on often sees the splitting axe just bouncing off. But then thats not really wood, it's heavy stuff sinks in water and the nature of it is so granular it's almost a hybrid of wood and stone. Burns hotter than anything else though.

 

[Samon]

If you read into the realms of what 'bushcraft' actually covers, you'll see why the common design is generally far superior to the average hunting knife.

Being made to cover wood work, fire making, hunting, food prep and the intricate stuff is pretty impressive. Something not alot of knives can live through (trust me, I've broken alot..)! So when you throw into this mix the 'hunting' knife you are left with a tool with a rather specific purpose that doesn't really have a 'standard' design, but a load of differing shapes, sizes and styles to pick from.

I can list a few things I've noticed from common hunting knives though, and that is a hollow grind, stainless steel and cheaply made. I wouldn't want any of these things in one knife! let alone the one I'd take anywhere to actually have a good time!

 

[Toddy]

For sure.

I did notice from that link; that once you stopped beating up that lovely wee laminated stainless knife, you made a few wedges, now thats more my style I've a couple of sturdy bushcrafters myself, both by makers who feature on these here BCUK pages, but I won't be thrashing them through my log pile. Just because I can doesn't necessarily mean I have to

I've a couple of pieces of wood out there that would foil even the hardiest blade, and likely break most of them. The greenheart former piles, even a carefully aimed whack grain on often sees the splitting axe just bouncing off. But then thats not really wood, it's heavy stuff sinks in water and the nature of it is so granular it's almost a hybrid of wood and stone. Burns hotter than anything else though.

See, I didn't 'beat up' the wee knife, I carefully used it
That's the thing, it's the use and the intent and the understanding that makes it work. You can only hit it as hard as you can hold it; if you let it 'spring' it'll snap your knife.
I can batton with an opinel too, and have done, and the knife is still sound.
Like Mors Kochanski can climb a tree by shoving a mora straight in and standing on it. It's not abuse, it's use.
'Hunting' knives just aren't reliably trustworthy that way, iimmc.

I know greenheart; we got a load in from the pierside of the old ocean docks in Glasgow, absolutely stinking of stockholm tar, burns like you wouldn't believe and that same wee knife battoned it beautifully, though I admit that it was much easier with my spyderco bushcrafter Greenheart makes brilliant bows

Wedges ? oh they are worth the effort to make they really are. It's possible to just keep splitting down a log in little slices, but if you can get a decent wedge into it then the job takes a fraction of the time. A froe is a brilliant tool too, and no sharp edges to fret over.

cheers,
M

 

[British Red]

Its probably invidious to compare cheap mass produced hunting knives with more expensive Bushcraft knives. A high end hunting knife by a good maker is excellent at its purpose - far more so than a Bushcraft knife is for game work. A Hollow grind is ideal for game prep for example.

Right tool for the right job.

 

[Toddy]

I think that's a very fair statement, but bushcraft isn't ever really just one task, that's why the knife that we think of as a 'bushcraft' knief evolved.
If I'm stuck, I can use a sharp stone to do almost any task that I would need a knife. That's at its most basic level....though that said, a fire hardened stick does very well too, as does a fresh shell.
Humanity is nothing if not creative and capable of thinking outside the box to solve problems

cheers,
M

 

[Uilleachan]

See, I didn't 'beat up' the wee knife, I carefully used it
That's the thing, it's the use and the intent and the understanding that makes it work. You can only hit it as hard as you can hold it; if you let it 'spring' it'll snap your knife.
I can batton with an opinel too, and have done, and the knife is still sound.
Like Mors Kochanski can climb a tree by shoving a mora straight in and standing on it. It's not abuse, it's use.
'Hunting' knives just aren't reliably trustworthy that way, iimmc.

I know greenheart; we got a load in from the pierside of the old ocean docks in Glasgow, absolutely stinking of stockholm tar, burns like you wouldn't believe and that same wee knife battoned it beautifully, though I admit that it was much easier with my spyderco bushcrafter Greenheart makes brilliant bows

Wedges ? oh they are worth the effort to make they really are. It's possible to just keep splitting down a log in little slices, but if you can get a decent wedge into it then the job takes a fraction of the time. A froe is a brilliant tool too, and no sharp edges to fret over.

cheers,
M

Ok, I'll grant you that, looks like a bonny wee knife too. I'm thinking about having a laminated stainless sgian-dubh made in a bushcrafter style, but I'm still wrestling with the opulence factor and justification for that. Handled in either slim antler bog oak or blackwood. Jury is still out though.

For sure hunters aren't up to the tasks many put a bushcrafer to, but just like your opinel example, exercise enough care and it'll do most stuff without breaking. The lumps of greenheart I've in mind are knotted I think i'll keep them in case I ever turn up at a meet, "there, batton that!" perhaps I'll offer up a prize

 

[Uilleachan]

Its probably invidious to compare cheap mass produced hunting knives with more expensive Bushcraft knives. A high end hunting knife by a good maker is excellent at its purpose - far more so than a Bushcraft knife is for game work. A Hollow grind is ideal for game prep for example.

Right tool for the right job.

I've a fair few keeper pals with uber-expensive hunting knives, i always fancy these are more about status than practicality, although there's no doubt that they are very practical knives for their niche. I find butchering far easier with a kitchen devil (hacksaw and hatchet too of course) than any fancy uber-expensive hunter I've tried, although I'm no expert myself so perhaps there is something special about a £400 hunting knife enhancing ones butchery prowess, I rather fancy it's practice.

Yes, right tool for the job, I'm a believer in that

 

[GreyOne]

Have 2 older Buck knives- a 110 Folding Hunter from 1967 and 119 Special from 1965 I think. Used both for hunting and camping for many years. The 110 I retired couple of years ago, replaced with a 110 Alaskan Guide version SV3 steel, rosewood handle, etc. The older one is a bit slimmer in the blade than when new, but still tight and sharp.

The 119 cleaned and butchered a lot of game over the years, and did a lot of camp chores. Lousy food slicer though.

Still, over 40 years of service from each.

I have not had any recent Buck knives other than the premium Alaskan Guide, so perhaps the quality control has slipped, but for many years, they were a very solid brand, and a benchmark choice for hunting here in the US. The stainless blades were at one time 440C, later changed to 420J I understand. I too have seen broken tips and a few broken blades on Buck knives, but every one I heard the story on was attributable to abusive use. The blades are hard, and yes, they will break under sufficient lateral pressure, as will the rather thin tips. But they were not designed nor intended for such prying use. For such use, there are other brands designed to withstand that some what better.

 

[Toddy]

Hmmmm, I have the dubious distinction of being one of the very few who have delaminated a knife
Turns out the problem wasn't me, but a quality control failure that the company swiftly rectified.
All I was doing was cutting tree ties which had been left on far too long and had embedded into the trees and were literally strangling them.

Kind of scary thinking I'd totally trashed a knife doing it though

The right tool for the job is fine in theory, but in practice I'd need to carry everything from a mushroom knife to a sickle to a prybar somedays. And that's just me out for a wee walk.
A good tool though, now that's worth carrying ....and a pair of pruners, just in case

I like kitchen devils for food prep too, but I don't rate them much for dealing with raw meat I use sabatiers for that. That said, I'm still using KD's that are well over 25 years old and they're still sound

While I mind, sharpening and stropping; I inadvertantly sharpened a butter knife to razor sharpness I was scraping stuck on pizza off the bakestone (ceramic, oven type I mean) with it and then found the knife a whizz to slice with
The bakestone's fine

cheers,
M

 

[Samon]

Delamination! eeeek..



'Right tool for the right job' = practical only when at home. Those of us who walk, hike and back pack instead of drive our 4x4's to a location don't have the luxury of carrying every tool for every job. Instead with that 'know more, carry less' mindset that bushcraft is kind of all about, fewer tools are needed and a general design must be made.

So, remember that not all of us have the space, money or time for a specific tool for each job and rely on that all important comprimise. Hunting knives rarely comprimise to manage more, especially when they aren't much more than the cheap tat off the mass production lines or a purpose/custom made hunting knives.