Huge Mako Caught Off Destin

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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you do realize they need to be of certain size to breed,once you have killed off the large ones its much harder for the population to recover. I am all for killing and eating things but not at the cost of such wonderful creatures.

Yes, they have to be a certain size to breed. But that minimum size is much, much smaller than those five caught:

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[/I][h=2]Description[edit][/h]The Shortfin Mako is a fairly large species of shark. An average adult specimen will measure around 3.2 m (10 ft) in length and weigh from 60–135 kg (132–298 lb). Females are larger than males. The largest shortfin mako shark taken on hook-and-line was 600 kg (1,300 lb), caught off the coast of California on June 3, 2013.

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And my point was, just what makes a Mako such a "wonderful creature?" As opposed to any other fish that is? Or mammal? Or reptile or insect for that matter? A critter, is a critter, is a critter.
 
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tent peg

Nomad
Jan 13, 2014
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Sherwood Forest
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Personally I don't think the value of a life is judged by its beauty. I wonder why a shark has more right to life than a fly that is casually swatted or a spider squashed? As for wasting a mouthful, its no more a tragedy than wasting a mouthful of McDonalds or a bit of a Greggs pasty - creatures died for them too. Come to that if you eat cornflakes, millions of creatures were killed to keep that field free of insect and mammal predation - you may not eat them, but they died for your food none the less.

whether I think it is beautiful is not the key point, and not the reason it should not be killed.

flies, cows and chickens are not an endangered species, or caught as a biproduct of sport fishing.

You can't compare a domesticated animal bred for food, to a wild species hunted to extinction.

killing mako is unnecessary, provided a few hours of sport for a few fishermen, but will cause untold damage to the eco system.
 
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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
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whether I think it is beautiful is not the key point, and not the reason it should not be killed.

flies, cows and chickens are not an endangered species, or caught as a biproduct of sport fishing.

You can't compare a domesticated animal bred for food, to a wild species hunted to extinction.

True to a point. But BR didn't just compare the domesticated species itself; rather remember he referenced the wild species that are killed so that the domesticated species may be farmed/ranched. Also that the same happens in order to farm vegetable crops.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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whether I think it is beautiful is not the key point, and not the reason it should not be killed.

flies, cows and chickens are not an endangered species, or caught as a biproduct of sport fishing.

You can't compare a domesticated animal bred for food, to a wild species hunted to extinction.

killing mako is unnecessary, provided a few hours of sport for a few fishermen, but will cause untold damage to the eco system.

Actually I can make the comparison - and I do.

Mako sharks have not been hunted to extinction so lets not be silly and emotive here.

Fish which are vulnerable are "hunted" all the time. The Cod in the fish and chip shop is severely depleted. Many endangered fish are damaged by seining, trawling and even potting and angling.

One could argue that killing one Mako provides hundreds of pounds of food. Trawling for Cod - and throwing many species back dead because of quotas is far more ecologically damaging - as is a tuna fish sandwich.

The horrors of intense chicken farming are also far more cruel than fishing for wild species - as is the slaughtering of male cattle at birth n dairy farming and on and on.

Now, my morality may be different than yours, but I submit it is no less valid.
 

tent peg

Nomad
Jan 13, 2014
297
3
Sherwood Forest
Actually I can make the comparison - and I do.

Mako sharks have not been hunted to extinction so lets not be silly and emotive here.

Fish which are vulnerable are "hunted" all the time. The Cod in the fish and chip shop is severely depleted. Many endangered fish are damaged by seining, trawling and even potting and angling.

One could argue that killing one Mako provides hundreds of pounds of food. Trawling for Cod - and throwing many species back dead because of quotas is far more ecologically damaging - as is a tuna fish sandwich.

The horrors of intense chicken farming are also far more cruel than fishing for wild species - as is the slaughtering of male cattle at birth n dairy farming and on and on.

Now, my morality may be different than yours, but I submit it is no less valid.

I respect your opinion, just offer mine. My turn of phrase 'you can't compare' was not meant to be a personal comment. Perhaps I should have used 'we'.

Back to the topic, what about the red squirrel in your profile pic? under your logic, is it as fair game to me as a bushcrafter as the grey? and if we eat cow we should also eat tiger or whale, what about dogs or cats?

p.s. silly and emotive? if you can't see the difference between a shark and a cow :confused:
 
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British Red

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Dogs and cats? Sure why not - cats are pretty much vermin anyway. Red squirrels are protected from hunting so no. Mako sharks are not prohibited, but catch limits are in place, so those catch limits should be respected.

My point is we should follow the "bag" limits for wild game and respect and hunting interdictions. All that was done with this shark. Should we hunt whales? To the point of extinction? No. As a food source if they were plenty (as there were once) - sure, why not?

I do not see a moral difference between killing a shark or a cow. I would hate to see either abused - any many intense farming practices are abusive. I would not wish to see any creature driven to extinction - be it a shark, a cow or a beetle. I don't see one more worthy of protection than another - I'm not sure why others do.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
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......if we eat cow we should also eat tiger or whale, what about dogs or cats?

p.s. silly and emotive? if you can't see the difference between a shark and a cow :confused:

Ummm. People do indeed eat dogs and cats. And lions and tigers as well.

As for the difference between a cow and a shark, well, cow tastes like beef, whereas shark tastes like fish.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
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......The horrors of intense chicken farming are also far more cruel than fishing for wild species - as is the slaughtering of male cattle at birth n dairy farming and on and on......

Actually the fate of male dairy calves is more horrific than simple slaughter; they're the normal source for veal.
 

British Red

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Not here mate - indeed we are campaigning to use hybrid breeds (beef / dairy) and using the males for "rose veal" (not white crate reared veal). Here the black and whites (Holstein / Fresian) cattle are deemed almost entirely dairy and not suitable for meat, so the male progeny are slaughtered at birth.

To me thats more wasteful and arguably unethical than killing and eating an adult shark that has lived free till adulthood. I believe many people though afford different status to creatures that are pretty, cute or exiting.
 

cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
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Athens, Greece
Can see both sides here.

As a fisherman and a meat eater i'm no position to judge other people legal recreational hunting or fishing.
So i can see BR's and Santa's side.

On the other side something did grate about this story and i had to go away for a while and think about what it was.

My conclusion was that my perception of the story was that these fishermen caught this Mako more as a trophy than a food source.
To be clear this is my perception of the story, so not fact.

I can understand hunting or fishing for fun, if i lived off what i caught/shot i'd have staved to death years ago :lmao: so it's mainly for fun or the challenge to me, rather than sustenance.
So i can't in my right mind judge them for wanting to fish a huge challenging fish just for the fun of it.

It just seems that with the pics and poses they're flaunting it.

It's not like shark is good eating, i'd sooner chew on BR's slippers than eat any more.

So i have no problem with people hunting or fishing within local laws, but i grates a bit to see killed animals paraded as trophies, as if it sures up the manhood of the fishermen.

But that tends to be a cultural thing in the USA.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
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An interesting viewpoint CBR.

To me when it comes to angling, catch and release is....unnecessary and, at best, wounds fish to no purpose. Catch and consume (whatever the initial motivation) is fine. But a strong argument can be made that anglers cleaned up the rivers more effectively than every ecologist and bleeding heart - so more power to them!

So long as you kill for a reason (which need not be food, eradicating vermin or other good reason is fine), then what is wrong with taking pride in a contest against a magnificent animal? If a man stalks and shoots a venerable stag, simply because it old and a high point stag, is it more cruel than to let it die of starvation over Winter or of infected wounds post rut (the normal fate of old stags)?

Red
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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Agreed about the point on people giving different status to different animals. In fact I'm as guilty as anyone else; I'm prejudiced for dogs, horses and most pet TBH. I just recognize it and try to compensate before I speak.

As to whether it's "wasteful" to slaughter dairy cattle at birth, I suppose that depends on what's done with the carcasses?
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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.....It just seems that with the pics and poses they're flaunting it.

It's not like shark is good eating, i'd sooner chew on BR's slippers than eat any more.

So i have no problem with people hunting or fishing within local laws, but i grates a bit to see killed animals paraded as trophies, as if it sures up the manhood of the fishermen.

But that tends to be a cultural thing in the USA.

Agreed that shark isn't on my list of favorite fish for the table; at least not knowingly. I say "knowingly" because it's not uncommon for some seafood restaurants here to stamp shark meat (or ray wings) into other shapes and pass it off as more desirable fish such as scallops. Like most coastal residents, I can tell the difference but most tourists can't.

Yes those fishermen were proud of their catch; not what I'd call "flaunting" exactly and I too have and still do keep certain specimens as trophies. So do the area conservation organizations for that matter. And yes it is a cultural thing here, but I don't think I's necessarily attribute it to suring up their "manhood" as it's just as common among women here. For that matter, would you refuse to pose once the reporters show up with cameras?
 
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cbr6fs

Native
Mar 30, 2011
1,620
0
Athens, Greece
An interesting viewpoint CBR.

To me when it comes to angling, catch and release is....unnecessary and, at best, wounds fish to no purpose. Catch and consume (whatever the initial motivation) is fine. But a strong argument can be made that anglers cleaned up the rivers more effectively than every ecologist and bleeding heart - so more power to them!

As i fish mainly in the sea the plan is the eat everything i catch, problem is the seas here in Greece are dramatically over fished, so it's tough to catch something that's big enough to eat.

I've taken smaller (still legal) fish home but by the time they're grilled and the bones removed there is barely a thumb full of meat left, so unless it's large enough for a meal i'll just return it in the hope it breeds so one day in the future i can have a decent meal out of one of it's offspring.

So long as you kill for a reason (which need not be food, eradicating vermin or other good reason is fine), then what is wrong with taking pride in a contest against a magnificent animal? If a man stalks and shoots a venerable stag, simply because it old and a high point stag, is it more cruel than to let it die of starvation over Winter or of infected wounds post rut (the normal fate of old stags)?

Red

Wrong is a tough one.

In some cultures they cook and eat insects.
Some have a culture where the offspring live with their parents well into their 30's
Some folks smoke knowing the harm it is causing to them

Legally none are wrong, but by the same token none really appeal to me either.

Legally these guys did nothing wrong.
As a fisherman i'm certainly not in a place or moral high ground to condemn them

I can see the draw of the challenge in landing a 720lb shark, a fish that's well known for putting up a fight.
I've never caught anything anywhere near as big as that, but have still enjoyed the challenge of a big fish caught of light gear, so i can understand that.

I've eaten shark and i think the statement "They also said the meat was shared among a large group of family and friends" although possibly factually correct doesn't mean most of the meat was eaten.
The meat may of been distributed but how much of the animal was thrown out?

Not that our society doesn't throw out millions and millions of tons of wasted animals each year, i just think it's a bit deceiving.

I don't see the draw in taken trophy pics though, the supposed intent is "look at how manly i am to have killed this strong dangerous creature"
The reality is the odds are stacked monumentally high for the hunter.
Don't get me wrong the guys must have put up one hell of a effort over a long time to reign that shark in, they showed tenacity, strength and determination and my hat is off to them for that.
The act of killing the shark showed none of the above though.

Ok they say that it wouldn't have survived as it was too weak.
I'm calling BS on that.
1/ What qualifies them to that opinion, was there a qualified shark expert on-board?
2/ How hard did the try to revive it, bet it wasn't anywhere near as long as it took to land it

Legal wrong is usually pretty black and white, morally wrong although a bit more blurry depending on who and where you ask is usually fairly black and white and although i support them being able to fish whatever they want within the bounds of the law, i do find a nod dishonest about their statement of the meat being used and i find the poses for the trophy pics distasteful.

That's not just this instance though it's making trophies out of animals in general.

Agreed that shark isn't on my list of favorite fish for the table; at least not knowingly. I say "knowingly" because it's not uncommon for some seafood restaurants here to stamp shark meat (or ray wings) into other shapes and pass it off as more desirable fish such as scallops. Like most coastal residents, I can tell the difference but most tourists can't.

Yes those fishermen were proud of their catch; not what I'd call "flaunting" exactly and I too have and still do keep certain specimens as trophies. So do the area conservation organizations for that matter. And yes it is a cultural thing here, but I don't think I's necessarily attribute it to suring up their "manhood" as it's just as common among women here. For that matter, would you refuse to pose once the reporters show up with cameras?

In my experience it tends to be a machismo thing which is usually males but also a smaller proportion of females.

I'm no psychologist but my guess is it's some sort of statement of dominance over an animal and a confidence boost to have the pics shown of trophies on the wall.

Please don't interpret that as me "having a go" as we all have similar things, be it photos of our travels, momentous, dangerous pets, younger partners, flashy cars etc etc etc

It's just different societies have different views on different things.

Have no problem with hunting or fishing if it's done legally and respectfully, i can understand the draw, for me personally i find using dead animals as trophies as distasteful.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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As to the inability of the shark to survive because of exhaustion, well you're probably partly right; I'm sure the fishermen themselves were the closest to an "expert" aboard. Realistically, who is an "expert?" A marine veterinarian? It's not likely one was available for hundreds of miles. that also raise the other question of "how much time did they spend trying to revive it?" Doubtful if they spent any time TBH. The only time I've seen anyone trying to "revive" an exhausted fish was by using their hands to gently move it sideways (back and forth) until it regained its consciousness; and that was small, freshwater fish. That would be difficult (if not outright impossible) to do with a 720 pound shark as well as extremely dangerous.

As to the trophies (and trophy photos) largely they're (personal photos) to preserve the memory. Yes there's also some motivation from machismo, but so what? What's wrong with that? What's the percentage between the two? Probably varies from place to place and even from person to person. All that said, the fastest growing segment of the outdoor sports and shooting sports here is women under 25 years of age. And most of the photos I posted weren't personal photos, but rather news photos taken by the Destin Log (the local newspaper) Taking a shark that size is news. The exception is the last photo I posted which I believe is a personal photo.

I know you're not "having a go" and I appreciate that you don't personally collect trophies. It's never been my motivation for hunting or fishing either, although when a worthy specimen presents itself, I do just that, and I usually keep the antlers from deer. While I appreciate your (or anybody else's) reluctance to take trophies, I do find it rather judgmental when somebody objects to others who do enjoy it.

As to whether the meat actually gets eaten or not, you're absolutely correct; the fact that they distributed it among a group is no guarantee. But these are the type fishermen who'll likely eat it "just because." Just because of their pride (machismo) that they're eating something they, or somebody they know, caught. Just because others think it's gross to eat shark. Just because they can show off by serving it to theier non-fishing friends, etc. That said, even if it does get eaten, I seriously doubt it has been done yet. That much meat (720 pounds live weight equals probably around 450-500 pounds of shark steaks and fillets) even split among a group, is more likely to be frozen and eaten over a period of the next 6 months to a year. I'm still eating fillets from a Red Snapper fishing trip a few months ago and we only caught about 30-40 pounds (once filleted) if memory serves. And there are 4 adults, 1 teenager, and 1 toddler eating from that catch.

As to some cultures that eat insects, well, even we (on both sides of the Atlantic) eat lobsters, crabs, shrimp, crawfish (crawdads) etc. As I've said before, those are just water breathing bugs.
 
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