How to make glue from Pine resin - advice please

[SimonL]

Hi folks,
I am curious to try making some glue from Pine resin, but a bit unsure quite how to do it...
I understand I need three ingredients:
1 - Pine resin (I believe I can use the creamy coloured hard stuff for this ?)
2 - Rabbit poop (dried and ground)
2 - Charcoal (also ground)
I have now got the ingredients above (in small quantities) and want to have a go and making a useable adhesive from them - I have no iea what I would use it for, it's more the process I am interested in, hence I'm only looking to make a small amount.
Where I have got to so far is melting the lumps of resin in boiling water, twirling the resin onto a stick (so I've got a round lollipop of the stuff (which has gone hard nicely - looks suspiciously similar to Caramac chocolate if anyone remembers that !))
Gathered some poop from a couple of freshly squeezed rabbits, that's now dry and waiting to go into a pestle and mortar, likewise I have some burned charcoal pieces.
Can anyone please give me some guidance on what to do next, and how to get the ratio of resin/poop/charcoal right ? How do you "test" it when it's mixed ? Does the final use dictate different ratios ?
Any help or advice would be most welcome.
Thanks
Simon

 

[Robson Valley]

Think about attaching both points and feather fletching to arrows and atlatl darts.
Beyond "first strike" flint blades, maybe in the cord wrappings to haft a flint knife blade or spear point?

I see many experiments in your future!

Any references that I've run across will describe the existance of pine/spruce resin-based glues
buth they always do a rotten job of defining the composition. Wood fibers will be mechanically stronger than
chopped up fiber from rabbit crap.

I had a link to a research paper describing Neanderthal use of resin glues in eastern Europe but it seems to have evaporated.

 

[Robson Valley]

HAH! I found the reference. I hope that this shows some direction.
I look at the resin globs on my big (12" x 50+' tall) spruce trees and think; " yeah. some day."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190626133802.htm

 

[SimonL]

Hi Robson, many thanks for that reference, I shall have a bit of a read
Very much appreciated
Simon

 

[Joe tahkahikew]

Kwé

You could also use what we use for sealing the seams on birchbark canoes and still do for modern canoes when split.

Gather spruce gum or pine gum. put in metal bucket. Sometimes it is preferred to heat the gum up directly without water. Better for me if you put in in water over fire. We add animal fat, mostly bear grease but I guess if you are in England you'll just use fat from the shop. You don't need much, its sort of trial and error but the fat stops the gum being too brittle when cold. Just experiment here for a while. Once it is melted skim off the top with all the muck and bits. Whilst still melted put it in some old cloth or sack and squeeze it out real tight into your pot for use. That way you'll get all the pure gum only. I have heard of folk using ground charcoal but I cannot remember my grandfather or father using it. Makes the glue darker. With practice it is easy to put on when it starts to go harder like chewing gum, just make sure you use your thumb well dipped in water so the glue doesn't stick on your hands to apply. I've seen folk also use sticks but that makes a real mess..

 

[SimonL]

Hello Joe,
Very many thanks for providing such a detailed explanation, I shall start making some preparations and see what happens.
All the best
Simon

 

[Robson Valley]

Maybe some fat can be rendered from game? Late season grouse here have some substantial globs of fat that you can pick off.
Wild geese and ducks, perhaps. Still, a whole lot easier to come by in paleo times than bee's wax.

 

[mr dazzler]

Just a thought, after seeing the bloke next door deal with 20 foot (yes they were 20 foot tall) lelanndiyi trees, and seeing the clear araldite type resin gushing out the cut branches, I just thought if theres any way that the sap could be used to make glue, if it was mixed with fat/grease/charcoal etc?? As many people will know its disgustingly sticky just like #### on a blanket. Has anyone ever tried it?

 

[John Fenna]

I use pine resin, beeswax and charcoal - about 2/3 resin 1/6 wax, 1/6 charcoal dust.
Used it for spearheads mainly....

 

[SimonL]

I use pine resin, beeswax and charcoal - about 2/3 resin 1/6 wax, 1/6 charcoal dust.
Used it for spearheads mainly....

Thanks John - very useful to have some idea of ratios to at least give me a starting point !
Why oh why do I never seem to have any old tins kickin' around when I need them
Cheers
Simon

 

[TinkyPete]

I use a similar mix to John. I put on cleaned sticks or the lollipop style ones.

I have used one various stuff from little containers to seal the up and arrow heads fixing onto a flint arrowhead and also to attach other strong bindings that I want to hang around for a long time after I have wrapped them in artificial sinew for my prehistoric projects.

It also can be used as an emergency candle/torch as well or even a extreme wet weather fire-starter (prehistoric one anyways) the fixing is waterproof.

Overall it is a great and universal bushcraft resource substance.

 

[Janne]

Not sure if not animal fat based glue will start smelling?
Bees wax is a safer option.

In worst case, but that lovely honey in glass jars with floating pieces of the wax comb. Eat the honey, chew the wax clean.
Win - win!

 

[Robson Valley]

There isn't going to be bee's and beeswax everywhere in paleo times.
As a plasticizer in small amounts, any kinds of animal fats are always easy to get everywhere.

If the time came to clean up the pine resin for some reason, here's a method for that.

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32685&p=1791316#post1791316

 

[Janne]

Honey and wax has been harvested from wild honey bees.

Still happens in Africa (and other continents too I believe) today.

 

[Robson Valley]

I don't doubt for a minute that bees wax is and was harvested where it is available.
Look at a list of North American native bees. You won't find any which make any appreciable amount of wax.

It is estimated that at the time of first european contact, there were 60,000,000 bison in North America.
While I know that they are not "fatty" animals like domestic cattle, there's plenty of backstrap fat for pemmican.
It's actually quite hard and waxy at room temperature.
I know that because I have eaten 6-7 bison in the past 17 years.
Lots of knapped flint arrow heads, too.
Bison fat would be a very useful additive to pine pitch arrowhead hafting material.

 

[SimonL]

There isn't going to be bee's and beeswax everywhere in paleo times.
As a plasticizer in small amounts, any kinds of animal fats are always easy to get everywhere.

If the time came to clean up the pine resin for some reason, here's a method for that.

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32685&p=1791316#post1791316

Hello Robson,
Many thanks for all your inputs on this - they are much appreciated.
I wonder if you'd be kind enough to give me the title of the thread you make reference to in your post please ? I am unable to follow the link - it takes me back to the forum home page which I understand is a problem with th VBulletin software the site used to run on.
As you've taken the time and trouble to dig out this reference, I would very much like to read it.
Thanks again
Simon

 

[SimonL]

Not sure if not animal fat based glue will start smelling?
Bees wax is a safer option.

In worst case, but that lovely honey in glass jars with floating pieces of the wax comb. Eat the honey, chew the wax clean.
Win - win!

...and change my user ID to Winnie_the_pooh...
I'm pretty much the right shape and also have trouble if I try to get down rabbit holes lol
But seriously, thanks for your suggestions here - they are appreciated
Simon

 

[Robson Valley]

Old, old thread here in BCUK:

How To "Purify" Pine Resin.

Maybe later this summer, I'll harvest what all I can reach on my big spruce trees just for experiments.

 

[SimonL]

Old, old thread here in BCUK:

How To "Purify" Pine Resin.

Maybe later this summer, I'll harvest what all I can reach on my big spruce trees just for experiments.

Thanks Robson - got it now. and there's a bit of flame in the back garden now
Many thanks as always
Simon

 

[Robson Valley]

I think it's a good thing to putz around with.
Flint knapping is a skill with years of learning.
I suspect that the same applies to making arrow shafts and fletching those.
However:
the day comes when you need to stick all those parts together.