hemp and linen
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How do you mean compare ?
Both can be beyond excellent fabrics, both can be heavy or exceptionally fine.
Modern spinning methods are inclined to compromise the best of the fibre though.
Both are native to Western Europe, and both grow well here.
They are plant or bast fibres. They are comfortable and breathable in wear. They don't stay as wet as cotton however and are not inclined to flare near fire as cotton may.
Is this the sort of thing you were looking for ?
cheers,
Toddy
Both can be beyond excellent fabrics, both can be heavy or exceptionally fine.
Modern spinning methods are inclined to compromise the best of the fibre though.
Both are native to Western Europe, and both grow well here.
They are plant or bast fibres. They are comfortable and breathable in wear. They don't stay as wet as cotton however and are not inclined to flare near fire as cotton may.
Is this the sort of thing you were looking for ?
cheers,
Toddy
Thanks Toddy,
The reason I posted the question is that linen is widely available whereas hemp is being marketed as some kind of super eco-fibre, yet I thought they were from similar sources and therefore had similar properties. So, do you get anything better by buying hemp compared to linen?
Could you elaborate on the detrimental effects of modern spinning please? Does this mean modern hemp/linen does not compare with traditional material?
best,
Geraint.
The reason I posted the question is that linen is widely available whereas hemp is being marketed as some kind of super eco-fibre, yet I thought they were from similar sources and therefore had similar properties. So, do you get anything better by buying hemp compared to linen?
Could you elaborate on the detrimental effects of modern spinning please? Does this mean modern hemp/linen does not compare with traditional material?
best,
Geraint.
Linen and hemp are long staple fibres, that means that they are betwwen 25 and 150cms long, cotton for comparison is considered long staple if it's over 25mm.
Modern spinning prefers short lengths, and it uses up the short broken lengths that traditionally were only used for coarse fabrics. The short broken lengths are called tow. (that's the origin of the phrase tow rag, not something that cleans feet, but a kind of hairy looking scrap of cloth. )
To use all the fibres modern machinery cuts the flax and hemp into short lengths before it's spun.
This means that modern linen and hemp is not as long lasting or hard wearing as the older fabrics.
Most folks don't care, it's still linen and hemp.
Hemp is a beautiful cloth, is more easily grown, and more productively, than linen, and has none of the pesticide and water issues that cotton growing has. Better all round; ah but, it used to have those pesky canabinoids in it's leaves.
Basically this is an American pre and post WW2 issue that spilled over into Europe.
They had a huge opprobium about cannabis smoking (calls for sterilisation of those who smoked it, huge health scares, etc.,) and banned growing hemp because of it.
Sheer stupidity since the stuff that produces the best fibre doesn't produce the high
especially with modern farming seed selection.
Not all of Europe fell into line however, and some of the most beautiful home grown, hand spun and woven hemp I have ever seen comes from Hungary/ Romania. They spin and weave in three qualities, and the finest is as fine as lawn. I have seen it woven to 30 to 35 threads per cm. Absolutely excellent
Machine made stuff by comparison is crude.
Hemp is generally a little softer in wear than linen is to begin with. It has a slightly different handle, even when it's a thick cloth.
Choice ? Either / or.
Tbh they are both excellent, they are best worn and washed, worn and washed. This creates tiny micro fractures along the fibres that eases the creasing that both are inclined to when new.
Both last very, very well indeed. We have line cloth that's several thousand years old and it's still sound.
Environmentally hemp wins
cheers,
Toddy
Modern spinning prefers short lengths, and it uses up the short broken lengths that traditionally were only used for coarse fabrics. The short broken lengths are called tow. (that's the origin of the phrase tow rag, not something that cleans feet, but a kind of hairy looking scrap of cloth. )
To use all the fibres modern machinery cuts the flax and hemp into short lengths before it's spun.
This means that modern linen and hemp is not as long lasting or hard wearing as the older fabrics.
Most folks don't care, it's still linen and hemp.
Hemp is a beautiful cloth, is more easily grown, and more productively, than linen, and has none of the pesticide and water issues that cotton growing has. Better all round; ah but, it used to have those pesky canabinoids in it's leaves.
Basically this is an American pre and post WW2 issue that spilled over into Europe.
They had a huge opprobium about cannabis smoking (calls for sterilisation of those who smoked it, huge health scares, etc.,) and banned growing hemp because of it.
Sheer stupidity since the stuff that produces the best fibre doesn't produce the high
especially with modern farming seed selection.Not all of Europe fell into line however, and some of the most beautiful home grown, hand spun and woven hemp I have ever seen comes from Hungary/ Romania. They spin and weave in three qualities, and the finest is as fine as lawn. I have seen it woven to 30 to 35 threads per cm. Absolutely excellent
Machine made stuff by comparison is crude.
Hemp is generally a little softer in wear than linen is to begin with. It has a slightly different handle, even when it's a thick cloth.
Choice ? Either / or.
Tbh they are both excellent, they are best worn and washed, worn and washed. This creates tiny micro fractures along the fibres that eases the creasing that both are inclined to when new.
Both last very, very well indeed. We have line cloth that's several thousand years old and it's still sound.
Environmentally hemp wins
cheers,
Toddy
Really interesting and useful, thanks Toddy 
. Used to have a fantastic linen grandad shirt that gf bought for me. It soon became my preferred camping and roaming shirt because of its ability to last and last, warm in the cold, cool in the warm, doesn't cause you to sweat as much as cotton can; much to her chagrin (she'd bought it as a posh shirt for 'go-wing too the theattar' :vio She ended up taking it to the charity shop saying 'I'd ruined it'! 
What?? It was the best outdoors shirt I'd ever had!! 
. Used to have a fantastic linen grandad shirt that gf bought for me. It soon became my preferred camping and roaming shirt because of its ability to last and last, warm in the cold, cool in the warm, doesn't cause you to sweat as much as cotton can; much to her chagrin (she'd bought it as a posh shirt for 'go-wing too the theattar' :vio She ended up taking it to the charity shop saying 'I'd ruined it'! What?? It was the best outdoors shirt I'd ever had!! They use Hemp in Tilley hats (some types). Is this a good option for coping with weather conditions UK gets? I'm thinking cotton is used in ventile but does hemp have any of the same characteristics? Tilley say that the brim of their cotton hats become stiffer in the wet. Would this happen with hemp? Toddy I guess you are the most knowledgable on these things. Its just that I've kind of asked a tangential question on the fabrics used by Tilley in their hats on the thread I started. I'm just curious as to the three fabric option they offer.
There are four things that make every cloth different.
Firstly, the fibres themselves, and their properties.
Secondly, how they are spun, tight like ventile or loose like denim and towels.
Thirdly, how they are woven, e.g. tight like ventile or twill like tweed and denim or knitted like a tshirt or a jumper.
Fourthly, how that fabric is then treated. It could be plasticised, or napped like felt, or cut like velvet.
Tilley tight spins and weaves their hemp. It's good stuff, long lasting, hard wearing, comfortable and breathable.
Cotton is a thirsty fibre, it will virtually always absorb water; that stiffens the cloth. Hemp will absorb some, but no where near as much, (unless it's been soft spun and soft woven for towels that is )
Does this help ?
cheers,
Toddy
Firstly, the fibres themselves, and their properties.
Secondly, how they are spun, tight like ventile or loose like denim and towels.
Thirdly, how they are woven, e.g. tight like ventile or twill like tweed and denim or knitted like a tshirt or a jumper.
Fourthly, how that fabric is then treated. It could be plasticised, or napped like felt, or cut like velvet.
Tilley tight spins and weaves their hemp. It's good stuff, long lasting, hard wearing, comfortable and breathable.
Cotton is a thirsty fibre, it will virtually always absorb water; that stiffens the cloth. Hemp will absorb some, but no where near as much, (unless it's been soft spun and soft woven for towels that is
)Does this help ?
cheers,
Toddy
Am I correct in sayig that it is the water absorption that causes the stiffening? I have heard that with other brimmed hats (the stetsons or 10 dollar hats of US westerns actually go floppy when wet hence you see Texans and sheriffs in the rain with a plastic hat protector on). I'm guessing both hemp and cotton would not do that due to a degree of stiffening. I'm also guessing that nylon doesn't absorb water and would not stiffen but I'm also hoping Tilley hats would still have the stiff brim no matter what fabric it is when in the rain.
Yes, water swells the fibres and thus stiffens the cloth.
I would suspect that the felted wool, or leather, or woven straw/grass 'cowboy' hats would soften and droop in wet weather even though they do absorb water.
I don't know if Tilley wire their brims, sometimes it's a very good idea, though it can be achieved by layering fabrics right at the edge too.
cheers,
Toddy
I would suspect that the felted wool, or leather, or woven straw/grass 'cowboy' hats would soften and droop in wet weather even though they do absorb water.
I don't know if Tilley wire their brims, sometimes it's a very good idea, though it can be achieved by layering fabrics right at the edge too.
cheers,
Toddy
I have a cotton Tilley and while I can't compare its merits with the other fibres available, I can say that it does well in rain. It is treated cotton canvas so initially it repels water and eventually will absorb it. In practice it keeps your head and shoulders reasonably dry in in prolonged heavy stuff and doesn't go uncomfortably stiff in my experience.
Heard something different to this. What happened was the winners of WW1 stopped production so they could buy it from the losers. The drug thing was a sixties thing, I think.
There is a T shirt maker, and there have been a few documentores about them. Basically hemp, is harder to get to the factory but better once there. Cotton is an enviromental nightmare to produce.
I think you'll find the issue is earlier than the sixties.
In the proscription of hemp in the 20th century, pushed some have said by the emerging petroleum industry, by the 1930's marijuana was being branded as the ultimate social evil.
Slightly biased links I agree, but their information still holds validity.
"A media blitz of 'yellow journalism' raged in the late 1920s and 1930s. Hearst's newspapers ran stories emphasizing the horrors of marihuana. The menace of marihuana made headlines. Readers learned that it was responsible for everything from car accidents to loose morality.
Films like 'Reefer Madness' (1936), 'Marihuana: Assassin of Youth' (1935) and 'Marihuana: The Devil's Weed' (1936) were propaganda designed by these industrialists to create an enemy. Their purpose was to gain public support so that anti-marihuana laws could be passed.
Examine the following quotes from 'The Burning Question' aka REEFER MADNESS:
In the 1930s, people were very naive; even to the point of ignorance. The masses were like sheep waiting to be led by the few in power. They did not challenge authority. If the news was in print or on the radio, they believed it had to be true. They told their children and their children grew up to be the parents of the baby-boomers.
On April 14, 1937, the Prohibitive Marihuana Tax Law or the bill that outlawed hemp was directly brought to the House Ways and Means Committee. This committee is the only one that can introduce a bill to the House floor without it being debated by other committees. The Chairman of the Ways and Means, Robert Doughton, was a Dupont supporter. He insured that the bill would pass Congress.
Dr. James Woodward, a physician and attorney, testified too late on behalf of the American Medical Association. He told the committee that the reason the AMA had not denounced the Marihuana Tax Law sooner was that the Association had just discovered that marihuana was hemp.
Few people, at the time, realized that the deadly menace they had been reading about on Hearst's front pages was in fact passive hemp. The AMA understood cannabis to be a MEDICINE found in numerous healing products sold over the last hundred years.
In September of 1937, hemp became illegal. The most useful crop known became a drug and our planet has been suffering ever since.
Congress banned hemp because it was said to be the most violence-causing drug known. Anslinger, head of the Drug Commission for 31 years, promoted the idea that marihuana made users act extremely violent. In the 1950s, under the Communist threat of McCarthyism, Anslinger now said the exact opposite. Marijuana will pacify you so much that soldiers would not want to fight. "
http://www.illuminati-news.com/marijuana-conspiracy.htm
However, it appears that things are changing, king cotton's days may well be numbered
http://www.votehemp.com/PDF/VHR/VH_Report_State_Legis.pdf
http://www.hempmuseum.org/
cheers,
Toddy
In the proscription of hemp in the 20th century, pushed some have said by the emerging petroleum industry, by the 1930's marijuana was being branded as the ultimate social evil.
Slightly biased links I agree, but their information still holds validity.
"A media blitz of 'yellow journalism' raged in the late 1920s and 1930s. Hearst's newspapers ran stories emphasizing the horrors of marihuana. The menace of marihuana made headlines. Readers learned that it was responsible for everything from car accidents to loose morality.
Films like 'Reefer Madness' (1936), 'Marihuana: Assassin of Youth' (1935) and 'Marihuana: The Devil's Weed' (1936) were propaganda designed by these industrialists to create an enemy. Their purpose was to gain public support so that anti-marihuana laws could be passed.
Examine the following quotes from 'The Burning Question' aka REEFER MADNESS:
- <LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: black">a violent narcotic.
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: black">acts of shocking violence.
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: black">incurable insanity.
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: black">soul-destroying effects.
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: black">under the influence of the drug he killed his entire family with an ax. - more vicious, more deadly even than these soul-destroying drugs (heroin, cocaine) is the menace of marihuana!
In the 1930s, people were very naive; even to the point of ignorance. The masses were like sheep waiting to be led by the few in power. They did not challenge authority. If the news was in print or on the radio, they believed it had to be true. They told their children and their children grew up to be the parents of the baby-boomers.
On April 14, 1937, the Prohibitive Marihuana Tax Law or the bill that outlawed hemp was directly brought to the House Ways and Means Committee. This committee is the only one that can introduce a bill to the House floor without it being debated by other committees. The Chairman of the Ways and Means, Robert Doughton, was a Dupont supporter. He insured that the bill would pass Congress.
Dr. James Woodward, a physician and attorney, testified too late on behalf of the American Medical Association. He told the committee that the reason the AMA had not denounced the Marihuana Tax Law sooner was that the Association had just discovered that marihuana was hemp.
Few people, at the time, realized that the deadly menace they had been reading about on Hearst's front pages was in fact passive hemp. The AMA understood cannabis to be a MEDICINE found in numerous healing products sold over the last hundred years.
In September of 1937, hemp became illegal. The most useful crop known became a drug and our planet has been suffering ever since.
Congress banned hemp because it was said to be the most violence-causing drug known. Anslinger, head of the Drug Commission for 31 years, promoted the idea that marihuana made users act extremely violent. In the 1950s, under the Communist threat of McCarthyism, Anslinger now said the exact opposite. Marijuana will pacify you so much that soldiers would not want to fight. "
http://www.illuminati-news.com/marijuana-conspiracy.htm
However, it appears that things are changing, king cotton's days may well be numbered
http://www.votehemp.com/PDF/VHR/VH_Report_State_Legis.pdf
http://www.hempmuseum.org/
cheers,
Toddy
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