Heat treating and tempering knife blades

[Mork]

Hi,

I'm having a go at making my own blades and will have shortly finished making an 01 steel and damascus (1095 & 15N20) blades.

Whilst I've read up on heat treating and tempering, I don't have an area at home where I could carry this out safely.

Does anyone know any knifemakers who will heat treat and temper blades for newbies such as me?

 

[Leshy]

I'm gonna bump this , as Ive often wondered if anyone would do this as a service...

👍

 

[redneck]

Shing on British blades has a very reasonable heat treating service for virtually all steels.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I heat treated my first blades in my kitchen. Pile of fire bricks on some news paper and plywood on the counter, plumbers torch, one brick forge. Quench oil heated in a pan on the stove. Not especially dangerous unless you aren't a bachelor, in which case burning a hole in the counter might be the least of ones worries. Far from the best arrangement for getting full performance from O1 and 1095, but my O1 blades cut.

 

[punkrockcaveman]

All you really need is to harden the blades. I use a chimnea in my back garden to harden mine, I use old files and 01 so use motor oil to quench and it works great for me.

Then the heat treating is done in an oven at 200C, until the desired colour is reached, I go for a dark straw colour.

I'll be hardening a few blades soon. If you like you could send them to me to be hardened. But, I'm no professional and haven't been on the forum for long so I'd understand if you declined.

 

[Leshy]

All you really need is to harden the blades. I use a chimnea in my back garden to harden mine, I use old files and 01 so use motor oil to quench and it works great for me.

Then the heat treating is done in an oven at 200C, until the desired colour is reached, I go for a dark straw colour.

I'll be hardening a few blades soon. If you like you could send them to me to be hardened. But, I'm no professional and haven't been on the forum for long so I'd understand if you declined.

A tutorial with step by step pictures wouldn't go a miss bud👍👍
I got a chimnea in the back garden...Sounds doable.

It would definitely help out beginners like me and simultaneously boost your kudos on the forum.

...Just planting seeds 😊

 

[Baelfore]

Can't help with the heat treat i'm afraid, but a note about quenching in oil... motor oil is carcinogenic, vegetable oil works fine....

but I imagine one of the more experienced makers on hear will be along soon to clarify.
hope this helps,

Ste

 

[Mork]

Thanks for your response.

 

[Mork]

I never thought of a chimnea - I'm assuming with charcoal?

Also thanks for offer - I havent finished the damascsus one yet so will bear this in mind

 

[Mork]

Thanks for the suggestion. I havent mentioned this to my wife as I think my life expentancy would reduce considerably if I were to attemot that in my kitchen

 

[punkrockcaveman]

Leshy- I think a tutorial sounds doable. Pics might not be great.

Mork- sorry for any confusion. I wasn't suggesting any part of the hardening process to be carried out in doors, and I'm pretty sure that engine oil is carcinogenic - I only use it to quench in my open garden which is very well ventilated. I just use pallet wood, but then again I've not made many thick knives before.

 

[Stew]

Wood fired chimnea? Are you addin some forced air in there as well?

 

[punkrockcaveman]

No added air stew, just getting it nice and hot

 

[Mork]

Leshy- I think a tutorial sounds doable. Pics might not be great.

Mork- sorry for any confusion. I wasn't suggesting any part of the hardening process to be carried out in doors, and I'm pretty sure that engine oil is carcinogenic - I only use it to quench in my open garden which is very well ventilated. I just use pallet wood, but then again I've not made many thick knives before.

Thats ok Punkrock, I was actually referring to comment made by Chris_C about heat treating it in the kitchen. Chimnea idea sounds possible for me, for the 01 steel anyway. I'm surprised enough heat is generated with wood - I can use charcoal in mine which means I could bury the knife in the coals hopefully bring it up to temperature - thanks for the idea

 

[Robson Valley]

First Nations (aka native indians) dig a trench in the ground as a heat treating forge with no more than wood used for fuel, so in can be done.
I've read about the kitchen oven trick, just some 400F to do the job.

 

[Stew]

I am sceptical that a wood fire with no extra forced air gets over 800 degrees C!

 

[Robson Valley]

The technique, at least, is described on page 168 in Wildwood Wisdom (Ellsworth Jaeger.)
It's a description of making a Mocotaugan knife blade:

"The Indians trade for files at the Hudsn's Bay posts. . . . . "
"The Indian heats it to a cherry red and bends the front. . . . . . "
" He then tempers the blade, hard at first, and draws the temper by heating to a yellow color."
You bladesmiths will understand the color thing with respect to temperature.
Must be some sort of bellows thing in there somewhere.

The Hudson's Bay Company was selling Mocotaugan blades by the barrel by 1760.
A single handed draw knife and not a carving tool, I wonder why HBC bothered as I've seen
photographs of no more than 50 such knives, all made from files.
I hafted a modern HBC-style Moco blade, made in Sheffield, UK, like the originals.
In fresh birch, works as expected for frame parts.

 

[punkrockcaveman]

That's what I do, take it to a cherry red colour then quench. I have a knife making book that I have been able to use as a guide though, and I've been very happy with the hardness of my blades, after quenching a file won't scratch them. I don't know how you would measure 800C. Sorry if it is unbelievable. I guess I'll have to post pics or a video to prove it.

 

[Robson Valley]

For my case, I'll take your word for it. Iron melts at 1500C or so. What color is 800C?
Our local farrier has a propane forge for horse shoes.
Cherry red in 60 sec with no added blower of any kind.
The set-up is perfect, the guy has no appetite at all to make knife blades.

 

[Ogri the trog]

Greenpete of this parish made a series of videos that are on Vimeo (https://vimeo.com/21484124) for number 1 of 4

I've been using his work as my guidance for a while. The key is not knowing when the material gets to 800 degrees - but knowing when it looses its magnetic properties - which is easy to check, when it no longer sticks to a magnet!

ATB

Ogri the trog