all sounds good but when you're tired of getting blisters consider making a bow for your spindle- IMHO wayyyyy easier (less sweat too) and absolutely no blisters
Hand drilling in the uk?
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Leo,
floating hands is a step up again - very difficult to get decent pressure. I use it occaisionally to help warm up a set but revert to standard downward pressure for actual attempts at an ember. The downside is that it shreds your hands in double quick time.
I forgot to say - if you are have problems with the set glassing over at the drill tip and in the board - this is a case of too little pressure initially. Once your drill has glassed over you need a LOT of pressure to start it charring again. Best tip is to but a little pinch of sand or woodash in the drill hole - this acts as an abrasive, increases friction and will lift the glass off.
have fun
floating hands is a step up again - very difficult to get decent pressure. I use it occaisionally to help warm up a set but revert to standard downward pressure for actual attempts at an ember. The downside is that it shreds your hands in double quick time.
I forgot to say - if you are have problems with the set glassing over at the drill tip and in the board - this is a case of too little pressure initially. Once your drill has glassed over you need a LOT of pressure to start it charring again. Best tip is to but a little pinch of sand or woodash in the drill hole - this acts as an abrasive, increases friction and will lift the glass off.
have fun
Leo
I wouldn't worry about 'floating hands', particularly when you are learning. It's just an unnecessary layer of complication. You don't need floating hands to achieve success with hand-drill. More importantly, I've never seen anyone who uses hand-drill on a day-to-day basis use floating hands.
Best
Paul
I wouldn't worry about 'floating hands', particularly when you are learning. It's just an unnecessary layer of complication. You don't need floating hands to achieve success with hand-drill. More importantly, I've never seen anyone who uses hand-drill on a day-to-day basis use floating hands.
Best
Paul
Thanks again Treemonk/Paul, I was just asking because I wondered if I would learn bad habits if I didn't but your advice reassures me, I don't want to make it any harder than it needs to be!
Leo
Leo
Hi Guys
I'm back for more advice please! I have a couple of drills now, all dried. I'm using elder and burdock tips on clematis and Ivy boards. My hands aren't bloody stumps yet but my office at work is about 14 degrees so every now and again I jump up and have a flurry of activity to warm up!
My first problem is that I appear to be getting no char, I've set the drill into the hearth but pretty much just get wood coloured dust. (i'm pretty relaible with the bow drill so I presume I'm looking for similar dust to form?)
Any hints for this first of many hurdles please!?
Leo
I'm back for more advice please! I have a couple of drills now, all dried. I'm using elder and burdock tips on clematis and Ivy boards. My hands aren't bloody stumps yet but my office at work is about 14 degrees so every now and again I jump up and have a flurry of activity to warm up!
My first problem is that I appear to be getting no char, I've set the drill into the hearth but pretty much just get wood coloured dust. (i'm pretty relaible with the bow drill so I presume I'm looking for similar dust to form?)
Any hints for this first of many hurdles please!?
Leo
Let me start by saying I have not managed to get a good ember using the handdrill. Lots of smoke and good dark dust, but I seem to cramp up or run out of steam before final ingnition.
If you are not getting charred dust, you are not creating enough friction (asuming the materials are good). I underestimated the amount of downward pressure you need to exert with most common woods. The hint I got was to really lean into the board and tilt your hands so the fingers point up a bit. You have to imagine you are pulling the drill down instead of pushing it down. This has increased my pressure greatly but as I said no coal yet and I must have drilled about 40 holes by now. My hands are no longer sore though so if we keep at it, we will get a success! Let me know how you get on.
Lennart
If you are not getting charred dust, you are not creating enough friction (asuming the materials are good). I underestimated the amount of downward pressure you need to exert with most common woods. The hint I got was to really lean into the board and tilt your hands so the fingers point up a bit. You have to imagine you are pulling the drill down instead of pushing it down. This has increased my pressure greatly but as I said no coal yet and I must have drilled about 40 holes by now. My hands are no longer sore though so if we keep at it, we will get a success! Let me know how you get on.
Lennart
Hi Folks
I'm new to this forum but a friend of mine made me aware of this discussion. Before you read anymore please check out my floating hands vid here: http://www.youtube.com/user/LearnBushcraft#p/a/u/0/bHPwkuH3tXg In this vid I use burdock on a cold snowy day to make a handrill fire form scratch. I collect all the materials (burdock and willow) there and then. I do this in under 30 mins. Burdock and floating is the key to making fire in most weathers without the need to manufacture or have cord. The following points are key to why I know that floating is an essential skill when coupled with an amazing plant that not only gives us food, but fire too.
-Burdock resists wet, so can be used there and then without the need to dry it like other materials!
-Burdock works on almost any hearth material, even woody hearths easily.
-Burdock is rarely in long straight sections, so you need to master floating to use it, otherwise you're back to using cord and lashing a tip onto a longer drill shaft.. all extra time.
I have been floating for years now and it is the ONLY method I use when handrilling unless I'm running a course where I instruct the normal method. I appeared in last months issue of bushcraft and survival skills magazine where I wrote an article on the subject of floating. Please check out my other vids too and I hope I can inspire you to learn this skills which really opens up the possibility of making fire quickly in any weather with just a sharp edge.
Being able to float means I never have to hunt aroudn for long straight drills now, (unless I have a course looming then I have to collect loads) I can use short sections from any twisty plant.
Merry Christmas
Dale
I'm new to this forum but a friend of mine made me aware of this discussion. Before you read anymore please check out my floating hands vid here: http://www.youtube.com/user/LearnBushcraft#p/a/u/0/bHPwkuH3tXg In this vid I use burdock on a cold snowy day to make a handrill fire form scratch. I collect all the materials (burdock and willow) there and then. I do this in under 30 mins. Burdock and floating is the key to making fire in most weathers without the need to manufacture or have cord. The following points are key to why I know that floating is an essential skill when coupled with an amazing plant that not only gives us food, but fire too.
-Burdock resists wet, so can be used there and then without the need to dry it like other materials!
-Burdock works on almost any hearth material, even woody hearths easily.
-Burdock is rarely in long straight sections, so you need to master floating to use it, otherwise you're back to using cord and lashing a tip onto a longer drill shaft.. all extra time.
I have been floating for years now and it is the ONLY method I use when handrilling unless I'm running a course where I instruct the normal method. I appeared in last months issue of bushcraft and survival skills magazine where I wrote an article on the subject of floating. Please check out my other vids too and I hope I can inspire you to learn this skills which really opens up the possibility of making fire quickly in any weather with just a sharp edge.
Being able to float means I never have to hunt aroudn for long straight drills now, (unless I have a course looming then I have to collect loads) I can use short sections from any twisty plant.
Merry Christmas
Dale
Dale,
You make it look easy. Must get in some practice tonight (regular style is hard enough for me)
Excellent vid!
Lennart
You make it look easy. Must get in some practice tonight (regular style is hard enough for me)
Excellent vid!
Lennart
Thanks for the reply Dale, ironically I have watched you on YouTube and you make it look far too easy, so much so you convinced me I might have a chance! Unfortunately I don't seem to really be winning at the moment! If I could afford training I'd love to get some hands on guidance, but for now its our old friends 'trial' and 'error' (and judging by the effects... mostly error!)
Leo
Hi Leo,
I've been a training partner of Dale's for many a year now and you're right, he does make it look too easy. We both started to learn floating at the same time and it took me far longer than him to get it. As such, there are a few tricks I've learnt along the way that may be beneficial to you in getting it down. That said, I would agree with an earlier post in that it is best to learn the basic method first before moving onto floating.
When you're ready to give it a go and first do so, it can be frustrating in the extreme. The main issue here is that if you're used to chucking out embers with the basic method, when you first try to float exclusively you will almost certainly have no success at creating an ember, and so there is a tendency to "cheat" and throw in a couple of downward runs just so you have the familiar satisfaction of a coal. This is what I did and it was quite the obstacle for me in learning the technique. What I'd advise is investing in a loss, if you like, in that if you do not permit yourself the luxury of a downward run, and have no expectation of making an ember then you soon learn the technique properly and will be chucking them out left right and centre, and once you do there really is no going back. I hand drill everyday and only ever use floating now because once learnt properly, it really is far more effective than the basic method - this may seem a little unbelievable until you've got it sussed, but I assure you it's true.
One thing a lot of people struggle with is getting the required endurance in their forearms. A good training aid I discovered for this is to get a short drill and board and after making a depression, fill the depression with soap so it and the drill tip become ultra polished. This way not even Dale would have a hope in hell of getting it to smoke, meaning that the kit can be used indoors and will never wear out. This can then be used purely to attain the endurance and technique required. I used to use this whilst watching the box, listening to the radio etc, and found that within no time I could float for several minutes at a time with little fatigue. Something I found particularly useful was to do this for the duration of a song (3-4 mins) on the stereo and then have a break of a min before hitting it again for the next track. This gave me a standard duration to work with and served as an excellent pace maker. The only caveat I would add to this training method is that it is just that. It should be used in conjunction with normal outside practise, since although the soap method allows you to gain downward pressure and learn the correct technique, it does take away a bit of the backwards and forwards resistance which can only be acquired through normal practise.
Hope this helps, and best of luck.
I've been a training partner of Dale's for many a year now and you're right, he does make it look too easy. We both started to learn floating at the same time and it took me far longer than him to get it. As such, there are a few tricks I've learnt along the way that may be beneficial to you in getting it down. That said, I would agree with an earlier post in that it is best to learn the basic method first before moving onto floating.
When you're ready to give it a go and first do so, it can be frustrating in the extreme. The main issue here is that if you're used to chucking out embers with the basic method, when you first try to float exclusively you will almost certainly have no success at creating an ember, and so there is a tendency to "cheat" and throw in a couple of downward runs just so you have the familiar satisfaction of a coal. This is what I did and it was quite the obstacle for me in learning the technique. What I'd advise is investing in a loss, if you like, in that if you do not permit yourself the luxury of a downward run, and have no expectation of making an ember then you soon learn the technique properly and will be chucking them out left right and centre, and once you do there really is no going back. I hand drill everyday and only ever use floating now because once learnt properly, it really is far more effective than the basic method - this may seem a little unbelievable until you've got it sussed, but I assure you it's true.
One thing a lot of people struggle with is getting the required endurance in their forearms. A good training aid I discovered for this is to get a short drill and board and after making a depression, fill the depression with soap so it and the drill tip become ultra polished. This way not even Dale would have a hope in hell of getting it to smoke, meaning that the kit can be used indoors and will never wear out. This can then be used purely to attain the endurance and technique required. I used to use this whilst watching the box, listening to the radio etc, and found that within no time I could float for several minutes at a time with little fatigue. Something I found particularly useful was to do this for the duration of a song (3-4 mins) on the stereo and then have a break of a min before hitting it again for the next track. This gave me a standard duration to work with and served as an excellent pace maker. The only caveat I would add to this training method is that it is just that. It should be used in conjunction with normal outside practise, since although the soap method allows you to gain downward pressure and learn the correct technique, it does take away a bit of the backwards and forwards resistance which can only be acquired through normal practise.
Hope this helps, and best of luck.
Fireman Sam said it all!! Just keep at it guys.. practice, practice, practice... and do not be goal orientated... forget about the ember. Once you learn to let go, you concentrate on the technique and not the end goal... concentrating on getting that ember can hinder you, it makes you loose confidence when it doesn't appear, you burn youself out too quickly and are far too tense when drilling... you may not believe this at the time, but once you've got the skill sussed you'll look back and remember how tense you were.
Once, when I had only recently learnt the standard method, I had not drilled for a month or two... then went back to it and found it utterly impossible.. i was exhausted after just ten mins... I thought I'd totally lost the skill. I was about to quit for the evening (shocked at how difficult i now found something that was so easy to me a month before) but then i had one more go and really studied the rest of my body and felt what the muscles were doing.. i noticed that i was really tense.. all of my upperbody muscles tight and wasting energy. Then I remembered how relaxed i was those months ago, when i had total confidence that i could do it. And suddenly it became easy again. And i spent half an hour kicking out embers, when just mins before i couldn't get so much as brown dust. So it's all about training to get the endurance (which Firemans Sams method is awesome for) but i would make a strict rule of 30 mins per night... the only thing stopping this should be blisters (or hotspots- hopefully stop before you blister), but this must be a strict rule... no leeway whatsoever! And it's important that you learn to relax the rest of your body totoally. So get the soap out and start rubbing lol. But in all seriousness good luck. Let me know how you all get on.
Once, when I had only recently learnt the standard method, I had not drilled for a month or two... then went back to it and found it utterly impossible.. i was exhausted after just ten mins... I thought I'd totally lost the skill. I was about to quit for the evening (shocked at how difficult i now found something that was so easy to me a month before) but then i had one more go and really studied the rest of my body and felt what the muscles were doing.. i noticed that i was really tense.. all of my upperbody muscles tight and wasting energy. Then I remembered how relaxed i was those months ago, when i had total confidence that i could do it. And suddenly it became easy again. And i spent half an hour kicking out embers, when just mins before i couldn't get so much as brown dust. So it's all about training to get the endurance (which Firemans Sams method is awesome for) but i would make a strict rule of 30 mins per night... the only thing stopping this should be blisters (or hotspots- hopefully stop before you blister), but this must be a strict rule... no leeway whatsoever! And it's important that you learn to relax the rest of your body totoally. So get the soap out and start rubbing lol. But in all seriousness good luck. Let me know how you all get on.
Here is the list of woods for spindles and boards witch we found to be good for hand drill method.
Board woods:
Basswood - one of the best woods for board
Aspen - works nice aswell
Willow - hard to make ember
Spindle:
Horseweed - works great
Mullein - works nice aswell
Cattail - I've heard its good but I haven't managed to make ember with it yet
Video of my younger brother making fire using handdrill
[video=youtube;2LPPss0b4sg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LPPss0b4sg[/video]
Board woods:
Basswood - one of the best woods for board
Aspen - works nice aswell
Willow - hard to make ember
Spindle:
Horseweed - works great
Mullein - works nice aswell
Cattail - I've heard its good but I haven't managed to make ember with it yet
Video of my younger brother making fire using handdrill
[video=youtube;2LPPss0b4sg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LPPss0b4sg[/video]
F
falsomknapper
Guest
Out of site very nice,a look back in time. What wood were you using in the vid? thanks for sharring
Hazel isn't good for the drill as it doesn't have much of a pithy centre and forms a cone rather than a ring when drilling with it. A ring is much more efficient - getting a finer, hotter powder.
As hearth board it is a bit hard. Softer woods are better.
Oh, and hi all. Been a bit out of bushcraft circulation this year, but I'm alive and kicking.
As hearth board it is a bit hard. Softer woods are better.
Oh, and hi all. Been a bit out of bushcraft circulation this year, but I'm alive and kicking.
Last edited:
ok, a heads up of how i did on my first attempt at the hand drill....
i used hazle for the hearth board and elder for the spindle, i managed to get smoke first time with medium to dark brown powder, i did however burn myself out to quickly, i tried to soon to get an ember which just shredded my hands too soon and the powder was not there to keep the heat in....
tips/points to note...... when i did my first attempt i used the bow drill stance, this made it really hard to get to the spindle as my leg was in the way, i also had quite a short board which made it hard as my foot was closer to the spindle.....
on my next attempt im going to try sitting down with the side of my foot keeping the board still, this should result in more room to work and more pressure as i will be able to lean forword more, ie my legs not in the way......
i plan to have another go when the wind dies down, its a bout 40-50mph at the moment bummer......
anyway best to all and keep on trying.....
chris.
i used hazle for the hearth board and elder for the spindle, i managed to get smoke first time with medium to dark brown powder, i did however burn myself out to quickly, i tried to soon to get an ember which just shredded my hands too soon and the powder was not there to keep the heat in....
tips/points to note...... when i did my first attempt i used the bow drill stance, this made it really hard to get to the spindle as my leg was in the way, i also had quite a short board which made it hard as my foot was closer to the spindle.....
on my next attempt im going to try sitting down with the side of my foot keeping the board still, this should result in more room to work and more pressure as i will be able to lean forword more, ie my legs not in the way......
i plan to have another go when the wind dies down, its a bout 40-50mph at the moment bummer......
anyway best to all and keep on trying.....
chris.
Chris,
That's a great effort.
A couple of thoughts - try finding some softer hearth wood - ivy, commercial pine, basswood, clematis.
and..
I'd second that thought about the board being short. A longer one would help get the leg out the way. Also if you find a way to lock down or weigh down the board then you could dispense with the leg altogether! Even just a longer board can be enough often - weigh it self down enough.
To get a coal it is good to hold it on or about just smoking a bit for a while to really heat the socket and drill through, then have enough left for 3 real good passes down the drill.
That's a great effort.
A couple of thoughts - try finding some softer hearth wood - ivy, commercial pine, basswood, clematis.
and..
I'd second that thought about the board being short. A longer one would help get the leg out the way. Also if you find a way to lock down or weigh down the board then you could dispense with the leg altogether! Even just a longer board can be enough often - weigh it self down enough.
To get a coal it is good to hold it on or about just smoking a bit for a while to really heat the socket and drill through, then have enough left for 3 real good passes down the drill.
thanks Rich, sounds good mate, would Sycamore be any good??????thats what i use for my bow drill, it works really well for me, Sycamore on Sycamore.....
some pics from the other day.... the blisters are getting better and the skin is tougher, so more hand drilling for me...
hope you all enjoy my pics of pain.....lol.....
thanks again chris.....
some pics from the other day....
the blisters are getting better and the skin is tougher, so more hand drilling for me... 
hope you all enjoy my pics of pain.....lol.....
thanks again chris.....
I'd give Sycamore a miss as it will polish too easily.
Thanks for the pictures. They suggest another couple of thoughts.
- Your elder has an unusually small hole in the middle - this is resulting in a concave depression. You really want a ring cut by a little less outer wood and more pith.
- Your V is a little large. It might be better to cut your V after you have burned in your depression - a 60 degree angle cutting through the ring.
All beginning to sound a bit technical. That's hand drill for you - making best use of subtle variables
Thanks for the pictures. They suggest another couple of thoughts.
- Your elder has an unusually small hole in the middle - this is resulting in a concave depression. You really want a ring cut by a little less outer wood and more pith.
- Your V is a little large. It might be better to cut your V after you have burned in your depression - a 60 degree angle cutting through the ring.
All beginning to sound a bit technical. That's hand drill for you - making best use of subtle variables
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