Got caught out yesterday.

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Wildgoose

Full Member
May 15, 2012
330
93
Middlesex
okay so with personal experience in mind, last year I broke my radial head and Had to have surgery, that sucked but I got myself to hospital and now having recently had a bad bleed which required blue lights, I want a small no nonsense bleeds kit in reach because not having it in reach really scares me. Whatever happens I think a bleed needs to be stopped first, I have a lifesystems adventure kit inside my pack that I have adapted to fit my needs, this won’t just live in my car it’ll be carried as Edc, so the above kit will be a m bleeds kit at hand when the clock is ticking. I can’t say I’ll be able to use it in shock but it’s there for me or anyone else and in sight.my wife will have a lifesystems pocket adapted slightly for her in her pack so between us we should cover most situations that we will be able to treat. We will tend to use one brand so that Both kits and packaging is the same and there a good base.
You’ve listed some very good kit, but take a massive positive from the fact you dealt with these issues without that kit.
 

Short_edc

Tenderfoot
May 1, 2020
71
52
Cambs
You’ve listed some very good kit, but take a massive positive from the fact you dealt with these issues without that kit.
I know mate, All this has just made me think about all the times that I’ve been first or second on the scene of something nasty, and in some cases not even so bad and have had to improvise every time because I’ve not had the knowledge or any first aid kit atall, and it took it happening to me to get me to think hang on which had made me feel guilty and maybe I should change my ways, as I religiously carry a sak, pocket knife, torch and wallet and 99% I’ve got my backpack anyway, Why not just be ready. (Side note I’ve got Israeli bandages coming for each kit) and I am getting involved in sar and Red Cross Now because i feel like I should give something back and why not, I don’t do much anyways :thankyou:
 
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Van-Wild

Full Member
Feb 17, 2018
607
408
41
UK
@Onelifeoverland Here is an example though - who in our country is likely to suffer one of the most serious traumatic injuries?

A good question... heres some quick statistics.....

Average uk driving commute: 54.8 minutes. So to keep it easy, thats about 2hrs in your car every day....

16.7 million people drive to work every day.

157,630 were seriously injured in RTCs in the UK in 2019.

The most likely sufferer of a traumatic injury in the uk is a driver. Soldiers don't just carry a field dressing in their bleeder kit. Maybe in 1944 but not now.

I'm not ranting and I sincerely hope that I'm not being read as such, but I do believe in being prepared. Better to have and not need than to need and not have......

I've been first and third on scene at two serious RTCs. When first on scene I was woefully unprepared to assist medically. I became part of the problem. Second Rtc I was third on scene. Air ambulance was on the way and a PCSO and a policeman was already on scene. They had med kit but it was spilled all over their car and they seemed more worried about scene preservation than helping the casualties (3 car impact on an off set junction, rural). I was way more prepared and delivered med on four casualties.

Dont think it'll never be you..... don't be like me and get caught out. Get training, get prepared.



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Paul_B

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 14, 2008
4,546
638
Lancashire
Van wild - you sound like you've got a lot higher level of training than most people. The only people I know with kit to deal with compromised airway have a job where they get to drive fast in a big van with flashing lights and sirens. One of my kids scout group leaders is a paramedic and a guy I used to kayak with was a paramedic trainer.

I think if you're doing more than what used to be taught to the general public in public first aid courses run by the likes of SJA. I'm sure modern courses taken by the general public, when they do take such a course, won't have much on how to use it for compromised airway. Having such equipment without training is more irresponsible than not having it because you might be tempted to use it. I'm not accusing you of that because I'm assuming you only have kit that you've been trained to use. The exception is medical kits for trips to countries where local medics might not have sterile kit. The idea of these kits is to carry it but hand it over to medics try use on you or your team mates. As in people trained to use them actually use them not the carrier of them.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm having a go out stating the obvious. I'm just pointing out that the kit a trained paramedic might carry for eventualities he/she can deal with shouldn't be carried by people without that training and indeed experience. You need to keep your skills up between training courses which is another weakness of first aid skills training in this country. Most people never practise their skills except on courses held most likely every 3 years?

My kit is basic but it's sufficient for a lot of incidents I might realistically encounter and my training level. The extras are really just about dealing with more blood or more wounds. The FFD usage sounds good but sounds a bit like the large ambulance dressings I got used on me and now carry. Thick, sterile pads with attached, stretchy bandage. One end short to tie it with, the other long to wrap around the limb or body and tie with the shorter end. They absorb a lot of blood but do eventually fill at which point the best option is another on top. Which is why I believe in multiples of big dressings. You can always use s big dressing on a small wound but not a small on a big one I reckon hence my preference for large dressings.
 

Onelifeoverland

Full Member
Mar 3, 2020
290
143
Caerphilly, South Wales, UK
I get all that, totally.

Though, I'll say that as of 2011, soldiers did in fact only carry an FFD, I know that because I was one for a long time. Some choose to carry a FAK but it's not an SOP.

I'll also say I've been a member of a SAR team and I've dealt with many traumatic injuries, and delivered everything from CPR to intra muscular morphine to dealing with compound fractures and fractured skulls - my teams callouts were only 60% mountain so we dealt with a lot of callouts off the mountain too in built up areas. As volunteering goes, I've seen far more than most. Unfortunately, in spite of all my training you can't save them all as they say and I've experienced that first hand many times too.

So I am just basing my advice on my own experience being in the thick of it and sometimes upto my elbow in blood and bone and pain scores of 10!

I guess all I am trying to say is base your sets on your skills.

Keep it simple.

OLO
www.onelifeoverland.com
 
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Van-Wild

Full Member
Feb 17, 2018
607
408
41
UK
Van wild - you sound like you've got a lot higher level of training than most people. The only people I know with kit to deal with compromised airway have a job where they get to drive fast in a big van with flashing lights and sirens. One of my kids scout group leaders is a paramedic and a guy I used to kayak with was a paramedic trainer.

I think if you're doing more than what used to be taught to the general public in public first aid courses run by the likes of SJA. I'm sure modern courses taken by the general public, when they do take such a course, won't have much on how to use it for compromised airway. Having such equipment without training is more irresponsible than not having it because you might be tempted to use it. I'm not accusing you of that because I'm assuming you only have kit that you've been trained to use. The exception is medical kits for trips to countries where local medics might not have sterile kit. The idea of these kits is to carry it but hand it over to medics try use on you or your team mates. As in people trained to use them actually use them not the carrier of them.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm having a go out stating the obvious. I'm just pointing out that the kit a trained paramedic might carry for eventualities he/she can deal with shouldn't be carried by people without that training and indeed experience. You need to keep your skills up between training courses which is another weakness of first aid skills training in this country. Most people never practise their skills except on courses held most likely every 3 years?

My kit is basic but it's sufficient for a lot of incidents I might realistically encounter and my training level. The extras are really just about dealing with more blood or more wounds. The FFD usage sounds good but sounds a bit like the large ambulance dressings I got used on me and now carry. Thick, sterile pads with attached, stretchy bandage. One end short to tie it with, the other long to wrap around the limb or body and tie with the shorter end. They absorb a lot of blood but do eventually fill at which point the best option is another on top. Which is why I believe in multiples of big dressings. You can always use s big dressing on a small wound but not a small on a big one I reckon hence my preference for large dressings.
Absolutely 100% agree with you. You should only ever carry what you're trained to use.

For the record, I have had a high degree of medical training and I've been unfortunate enough to have had to use it more than once....

I don't think you were having a go and I do hope I didn't come across like a self righteous proverbial, I genuinely apologise if my comment read as such.

I do think its only ever a good thing that people are openly discussing first aid here. We can all get carried away with kit, equipment, the latest knife or saw or tarp .... but first aid is commonly an after thought, which is a shame that could prove fatal if we aren't adequately trained for it.

I am not a paramedic or a medically registered professional in any way, but I do have some extensive medical training and real world experience. Happy to give my opinion on trauma care, with the caveat that its only my opinion based on my experience and not as a medically registered professional by UK standards. I did my training in the US.....

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reflexmedical

Member
Apr 22, 2020
11
11
22
UK
Really interesting read, and glad to hear that you are safe and managed to deal with the incident without your first aid kit. Hope you are nicely on the mend!

1 x nars s gauze
1 x 6” Israeli bandage
1 x Celox z fold hemostatic gauze
1 x Trauma shears
1 x Cat t tourniquet
1 pair Disposable non latex gloves
2 x alcohol wipes
2 x iodine wipes
1 x elastic adhesive bandage tape
1 x acme thunder whistle
1x energy gel, quick release glucose gel pack
I’m still looking at pouches but I’m thinking the 5.11 3.6 med kit. Also Im very open to suggestions, ideas and criticisms.
We would normally have 2x CAT tourniquets in a bleeding control kit for the (admittedly rare) scenario where you can't control the bleed with one TQ. Worth considering. I would go for Celox rapid as well - it works with 60 seconds compression rather than 3-5 mins. If this is a bleeding control pack primarily, I wouldn't worry about having alcohol/iodine wipes as this is an immediate aid pack. Good luck and PM me if I can help you with any of the kit.

Would there be any interest in doing a Group Buy of Medical Kit for an approved ( via consensus ) kit? I don't mind underwriting it in the first place and sorting the various kit out here at my location and posting it on ??
We developed some bleeding control kits that are in a sealed mylar bag which contained 2x TQs, 1x Celox Rapid, 2x Israeli Bandages and some other essentials. Being in a sealed bag, it is waterproof and the earliest expiry was neatly printed on the outside. Let me know if you want any photos/more info.

They carry a single First Field Dressing - that's one of those Israeli Military bandage things if your not familiar with an FFD anf that is their FAK in its entirety. Its pocket sized and can go everywhere with you, even if you are not carrying a bag. It can be used for packing a very bad wound or it can be used to tie a splint and they generally can cope with a pint of blood before they start to 'leak'. And I do the same, that is my bleed kit, everything else is in a main FAK.

----‐------------------------------------

As a slight aside, I may have missed this already so apologies if someone has already suggested it but a great addition to any main FAK is a Sam Splint. Essentially its some alu strips wrapped in closed cell foam. Excellent piece of kit for dealing with breaks and soft tissue injuries such as sprain etc. Its super lightweight, can be folded into any shape and it can be cut. It also makes a super dinner plate if you forget to pack yours

OLO
www.onelifeoverland.com
It used to be an FFD but they carry a CAT tourniquet now as well - taken out of the packet and set up for single handed application. Worth learning how to use a TQ and having one in your bleeding control kit. SAM splints are great and there are lots of other brands that work on the same principle also. So many different uses!
 
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TeeDee

Full Member
Nov 6, 2008
6,116
636
46
Exeter
Really interesting read, and glad to hear that you are safe and managed to deal with the incident without your first aid kit. Hope you are nicely on the mend!



We would normally have 2x CAT tourniquets in a bleeding control kit for the (admittedly rare) scenario where you can't control the bleed with one TQ. Worth considering. I would go for Celox rapid as well - it works with 60 seconds compression rather than 3-5 mins. If this is a bleeding control pack primarily, I wouldn't worry about having alcohol/iodine wipes as this is an immediate aid pack. Good luck and PM me if I can help you with any of the kit.



We developed some bleeding control kits that are in a sealed mylar bag which contained 2x TQs, 1x Celox Rapid, 2x Israeli Bandages and some other essentials. Being in a sealed bag, it is waterproof and the earliest expiry was neatly printed on the outside. Let me know if you want any photos/more info.



It used to be an FFD but they carry a CAT tourniquet now as well - taken out of the packet and set up for single handed application. Worth learning how to use a TQ and having one in your bleeding control kit. SAM splints are great and there are lots of other brands that work on the same principle also. So many different uses!

Yes please to the Photos.
 
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reflexmedical

Member
Apr 22, 2020
11
11
22
UK
94393153_283657199704673_6108317731210133504_o.jpg

this is just an example of the kind of thing we were offering in sealed bags. They could be kitted out with whatever you want!
 
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Short_edc

Tenderfoot
May 1, 2020
71
52
Cambs
Hey, yeh I’d be interested mate, cheers for the helpful advice! Struggling with the thumb, it’s completely numb like pins and needles and pangs when I pick things up, so I think I definitely caught the nerve ending, I’m back in on Tuesday so they can sort it then
 

reflexmedical

Member
Apr 22, 2020
11
11
22
UK
Hey, yeh I’d be interested mate, cheers for the helpful advice! Struggling with the thumb, it’s completely numb like pins and needles and pangs when I pick things up, so I think I definitely caught the nerve ending, I’m back in on Tuesday so they can sort it then
Fingers crossed!
 

Onelifeoverland

Full Member
Mar 3, 2020
290
143
Caerphilly, South Wales, UK
Really interesting read, and glad to hear that you are safe and managed to deal with the incident without your first aid kit. Hope you are nicely on the mend!



We would normally have 2x CAT tourniquets in a bleeding control kit for the (admittedly rare) scenario where you can't control the bleed with one TQ. Worth considering. I would go for Celox rapid as well - it works with 60 seconds compression rather than 3-5 mins. If this is a bleeding control pack primarily, I wouldn't worry about having alcohol/iodine wipes as this is an immediate aid pack. Good luck and PM me if I can help you with any of the kit.



We developed some bleeding control kits that are in a sealed mylar bag which contained 2x TQs, 1x Celox Rapid, 2x Israeli Bandages and some other essentials. Being in a sealed bag, it is waterproof and the earliest expiry was neatly printed on the outside. Let me know if you want any photos/more info.



It used to be an FFD but they carry a CAT tourniquet now as well - taken out of the packet and set up for single handed application. Worth learning how to use a TQ and having one in your bleeding control kit. SAM splints are great and there are lots of other brands that work on the same principle also. So many different uses!
Rgr. I'd forgotten about that latest addition.

I'd also add, don't be fooled by the rubbish on Amazon or Ebay. Tourniquets are approved. Do please by an approved one. You'll only get one opportunity to check it works and if it breaks on you it's probably already too late.

OLO
www.onelifeoverland.com
 
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reflexmedical

Member
Apr 22, 2020
11
11
22
UK
Rgr. I'd forgotten about that latest addition.

I'd also add, don't be fooled by the rubbish on Amazon or Ebay. Tourniquets are approved. Do please by an approved one. You'll only get one opportunity to check it works and if it breaks on you it's probably already too late.

OLO
www.onelifeoverland.com
Absolutely go for something approved and genuine - not worth the risk if you ever need to use it.
 
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TeeDee

Full Member
Nov 6, 2008
6,116
636
46
Exeter
Do you think there would be interested in a group buy for the kit above mate?

I'm happy to run one and organise one - The problem ( potential problem) is that I think many people will already have version of a First Aid Kit ( so maybe they don't require another one or two??? ) the second problem I see is actually getting experienced people to collectively agree what SHOULD be included in the kit. If we can agree commonality upon the same 80 % of items then we have a fighting chance.
 
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Short_edc

Tenderfoot
May 1, 2020
71
52
Cambs
I'm happy to run one and organise one - The problem ( potential problem) is that I think many people will already have version of a First Aid Kit ( so maybe they don't require another one or two??? ) the second problem I see is actually getting experienced people to collectively agree what SHOULD be included in the kit. If we can agree commonality upon the same 80 % of items then we have a fighting chance.
gotcha mate, Well I’m in if we decide to press forward :cool:
 

TeeDee

Full Member
Nov 6, 2008
6,116
636
46
Exeter
gotcha mate, Well I’m in if we decide to press forward :cool:

 
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