Good gawd, convex edges really DO work wonders!

[addyb]

Early this morning I posted on the Firecraft forum that yesterday, a friend and I spent 5 hours trying to make fire with a bow drill. No such luck, we had a lot of smoke, but still not enough to make embers. But we think we've figured out what we were doing wrong, and so we're going to try and remedy the problem. (Yes, it's almost pathetic, but we both had a learning experience)

Anyway, to get the wood, we decided to go for a little jaunt in the forest with only a convex-ed SAK each. (In hindsight we realized we probably shouldn't have gone about things the hard way and as it was our first attempt, we probably should've used better materials and a hatchet would've helped)

The point is that after 5 hours of near constant slicing, chopping, whittling, carving, and using the SAK's on wood far biggger than what they were designed for, the blades held up well - utterly, amazingly well. Even after spending an entire afternoon using them, the SAK blades were still amazingly sharp, and needed only a quick strop after I cleaned them to return the edge back to 100%. I was amazed because before I had learned how to convex a blade, and my SAK's were still a full flat grind, I think I would've been grabbing the arkansas about every twenty minutes.

The lesson I learned: Convex edges really DO work wonders!

Adam

 

[OldJimbo]

Now I know it's probably summer down there, already - but were you using seasoned wood (dried indoors) or doing things the hard way?
From Mora carvers to machetes I'm finding convex to be the best, too.

 

[addyb]

Jimbo,

I'm in Nanaimo. And yes, we were doing things the hard way. We each grabbed a convex-ed SAK and took a stroll into the forest. The only other thing we took with us was a boot lace from my jungle boots. So we used the SAK's to cut branches, carve a top block, slice the spindle, and ember board, etc etc... We were at it from about 11 in the morning until about 5 in the evening, only stopping for lunch. And yeah, convex edges are great. I mean, I simply couldn't believe how well the edges on my two SAK's held up, even through all the work we used them for! Even by the end of the day, they were still very nearly shaving sharp, and only need a very slight strop after I had cleaned them and put them away.

But, I've realized that until Alex and I've properly mastered how to make fire with a bow-drill, we probably should've dried the wood indoors, and took a hatchet with us when we were selecting the wood. We tried a bit too hard to mimic a "survival situation" and I think that was our main failing part. Oh well, back to the drawing board!

Adam

 

[OldJimbo]

It's still pretty chilly and damp down there - were you using dead conifer branches? They might be the driest but it's tough to get them to work. I had a lot of trouble today just with fuzzies from a dead red cedar that leans down onto the beach. Every crack was full of ice crystals.

 

[Ogri the trog]

We tried a bit too hard to mimic a "survival situation" and I think that was our main failing part.
Adam

Addyb,
Excuse me for butting in, but since learning the friction fire technique, something has sprung to mind. If you learn the method in ideal circumstances first, you are then able to change some of the variables and start to understand how it affects the outcome.
I learned bow-drill firemaking in december and since then I've practiced and introduced different spindles and hearthboards, and I'm now quite confident in my ability to produce a coal - though whether that coal can be blown into a flame is another question

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[bloodline]

Thats good advice Ogri I learnt the method in December but it took a couple of weeks perfecting it in the comfort of my workshop now Im confident enough to try from scratch in the outdoors. Let the heat you generate dry out the components by slowing down or pausing now and then (thanks Rich59) It does become a bit of an obsession though and you find you are looking for bits for your sets all the time

 

[OldJimbo]

Things are pretty darned tough on the coast at this time of year. The important part to concentrate on is that getting to the smoke point, going out with only a SAK is pretty darned incredible.
I favor the portable electric drill approach combined with a hatchet to see just what will work.... Here, branches that can be split and shaped without a hatchet often don't even work for fuzzies.

 

[addyb]

Yeah, you guys are right. I mean, I think mimicking a survival situation would work better once Alex and I have properly learned how to use a bow-drill. Damnit, if I still had my digital camera I'd be able to take some photo's of our kit, it's still sitting in my garage. :tapedshut

Anyway, our spindle was about an inch in diameter, and about 12 inches long. It was dead wood, and nice and straight. The top-block idea I saw on TV (haha) so I took once of those pieces of fungus-type growth that you can find on the sides of fur or evergreen trees. It worked nicely, after a bit of work, it fit the top of our spindle eventually. Sadly, by the end of the day it cracked.

I might've done this the wrong way, but originally, Alex suggested using a large, thick dry piece of wood for the bow. I found that it didn't have much flex, though. So then we tried using a thinner, greener branch of wood as a bow, and I found that it flexed better. For an ember-board, I don't know what sort of wood it was, but we drilled so much that very nearly wore out the hole we put into it.

For tinder, we simply took a sharp rock, and scraped the dry fuzz from the side of a ceder tree, it worked extremely well. For tinder, I don't think there's anything better available in BC.

The cool thing was, we had smoke and a lot of it. But I think out spindle was too soft, it kept wearing out. As well, Alex and I's bow technique wasn't very steady, we'd go too fast (one of us holding the ember board, the other using the bow) and by the time we had smoke, we'd tire out before we could really get an ember. But we got that far, so I think the next time we'll do better. Ogri's right, we need to minimimize the extraneous variables.

Anyway, I think today I'm going to buy a Frosts Clipper. I'm in love with my SAK, the edge held up amazingly well, but as much as I hate to admit it, sometimes a person needs something bigger. Right?

Cheers guys, and wish me luck!

Adam

 

[george]

I favor the portable electric drill approach combined with a hatchet to see just what will work....

Glad to see that someone else uses this method - I thought I was the only one to chuck suitable bits of wood in a drill to check out how well they work.

I can hold my head up again in the knowledge that Jimbo does it too!

George

 

[Shinken]

Yep convex hold an edge better, but for me dosnt seem to have the "bite" in wood that a flat bevel has!

Just my humble opinion of course

 

[bushwacker bob]

Glad to see that someone else uses this method - I thought I was the only one to chuck suitable bits of wood in a drill to check out how well they work.

I can hold my head up again in the knowledge that Jimbo does it too!

George

me too

 

[OldJimbo]

I can hold my head up again in the knowledge that Jimbo does it too!

I wouldn't try to emulate the old f**t too closely. Every time I talk about retiring my grand-daughter starts talking about how it'll be when they put me in the old folks home...

With fire drills, things can be so easy with the right wood dried out totally. I keep some absolutely dry red cedar around for people who don't believe that a fire drill works. Outside it's a completely different situation, because of wanting to try so many wood types - some of which dry out fast on the first sunny day - and others which might be great after being inside for a few weeks, but are never found really dry outside. Dried cottonwood is fantastic, but one can cut down a tree, cut it into rounds and leave the rounds stacked with bark on for a couple of years. Put one of those blocks on the ground and it will grow roots and shoots. Really dry cedar is the same sort of fantasy. So a person has to do lots of experimenting with various woods found in various places to get a real grasp. And that's where the portable drill comes in. Elderberry (ours is the red - loaded with cyanide compounds type) is good but it isn't sufficient to find what looks like a dry dead shoot. Where you collect it is important, too, because moving 50 metres inland might mean the difference between something that will work and something that won't. You only get to know the damp air zones through experimenting - lots and lots! So lots of time to become a purist when I actually know enough!

The Clipper is a fine knife - but to be honest I think the cheaper red handled carbon blade which is still under $10 CAN is better in terms of more tang and a slightly thicker blade. With both, I use a drywall sander loaded with emery to slightly convex the whole Scandi bevel. Then I put on a lightly steeper convex right at the last mm at the edge. Final steps are to round the top shoulders of the bevels, and properly flatten the supposedly flat sides. After all that it glides through wood all day. Well it does after polishing with green buffing compound on cardboard. Lots of work for a $10 knife but I haven't failed to get fine enough fuzzies and a fire going since I started taking such pains. It's wet here almost all the time.