Good/bad sparks

[Kath]

I wonder if anyone can help me with a couple of questions about sparks...

1 - I'm trying to figure out what makes a 'good' spark. You can light most tinder easily and quickly with firesteels and flint & steels as they make good sparks (but then surely the spark is really a burning lump of metal flying off?) But, if you use say a flint and a piece of quartz you can still get sparks, but it's a devil to get them to light anything at all (even easy tinders like char cloth etc). So what's the difference with these sparks?

2 - Also what about embers? Say for example you've used up all your matches lighting a tinder fire that's almost gone out again and all you have left are tiny glowing embers. How do you relight them again to get fire? Is it even possible?

Thanks for any insight ... :-D

 

[Bear Stone]

Kath,

Getting good sparks...

I'm of the mind that everyone has their own technique. This is me; I like to have flat striking surfaces on my ferro rods. Three 'sides' to strike on works for me - it doesn't take long to wear them in. When you strike, you might notice a wide spark - it looks almost like a single wide streak of light with no breaks in it; this is a good spark. Also, if the knife/striker feels 'bumpy' or rough as it goes over the ferro rod then your not getting a good strike. It should be a smooth action to get the best result. Examine your ferro rod periodicaly and scrape out any nicks or chips on the striking surface.

With the embers...

I'm presuming you mean the fire has died down and only embers are left.
Get a tinder ball together and some dry wood. Carefully, pick up a piece of wood with an ember in it and blow on it; lightly at first to get it stronger. When you are satisfied the ember is strong, wrap the tinder ball around the wood and over the ember (not too tightly) and blow the tinder into flame using the ember. OTOH, you can carefully remove the ember with your knife and drop it into the tinder bundle.

Hope this helps,

Bear

 

[Kath]

Thanks Bearstone. That's a good reply. Especially the bit about embers. I've been using firesteels for many years and am trying to work with simpler more primative materials now. But am I seeing a spark with quartz (what is a spark???) or is it not really fire I'm getting?

 

[Adi007]

How good or bad sparks are for lighting a fire depends on two things:

- How hot they are
- How long they last

What you really need are long-lived, hot sparks and the best way to get these are with artificial ferro rods. These things are made of a complex blend of metals and they consist of 20% iron - this is where the ferro part of the word ferrocerium comes from - (Fe), with trace amounts of other elements such as zinc (Zn), magnesium (Mg), cerium - this is where the cerium part of the word ferrocerium comes from - (Ce), lanthanum (La), neodymium (Nd) along with minute traces amounts of other rare earth elements

When the rod is scraped with a steel edge, particles are scraped off and ignited by the friction giving a shower of hot sparks. These burning particles can, in turn, ignite your tinder.

With a steel striker and flint you are scraping off burning particles of iron. These are not as plentiful as from a ferro rod but still pretty hot.

Now, the sparks from quartz are piezoelectric and it's darn tricky to light anything from there (I think) because the temperature is lower and they have a much shorter lifespan. A better idea is to strike iron pyrites with the quartz ... but you're now back into the realm of a spark that is made up of a burning particle.

One thing I'd really like to know is the temperature of these sparks.

 

[Kath]

Cheers for that Adi007 ...

Just found a good page ... http://lynx.neu.edu/m/mbennett/spark.html (whizz down to the Stone Firestarting bit)

 

[bushwacker bob]

arnt you two talking to each other? Good answers tho' as Kath says some more natural sparks are a sod to start an ember with

 

[Adi007]

arnt you two talking to each other? Good answers tho' as Kath says some more natural sparks are a sod to start an ember with

We are! :-D Just thought I'd share my thoughts with everyone.

 

[Kath]

arnt you two talking to each other?

Actually I was away on a course that weekend, so it's not quite as sad as it looks!

Good answers tho' as Kath says some more natural sparks are a sod to start an ember with

As people at the Outdoor show will tell you, I've been bashing my bit of quartz on my bit of flint for weeks now and although I'm getting some beautiful looking sparks, I'm achieving nothing more than some flint knapping at the moment. I finally concede I'm not going to make fire this way, although the sparks do appear to jump a long way, I realize they must be this "triboelectric" (pietzo-electric???) effect that is mentioned in the article, rather than bona fide fire! So now I'm on the hunt for a decent sized piece of fool's gold (I've tried a bit my kids got from the rock shop but I'm convinced it's just glitter & pva made to look like stone! Fool's fool's gold, perhaps??? )

 

[Andy]

what tinder are you using. have you tried char cloth?

 

[Kath]

what tinder are you using. have you tried char cloth?

Yeah I'm using charcloth. It's just not the right kind of fire ...

 

[ChrisKavanaugh]

Wilderness Way Magazine www.wwmag.com has an available back issue with an extensive article on sparking with stones. I believe the article is online at the site also. I tried the method myself and decided there is enough skill learning to get aggravated over. Now my horses have it down to a science. A good set of horseshoes will have lots of carbon hammer forged into a great firesteel. My horses have a knack for finding the hardest quartz and sending delightfull sparks every which way.

 

[Kath]

Now my horses have it down to a science. A good set of horseshoes will have lots of carbon hammer forged into a great firesteel. My horses have a knack for finding the hardest quartz and sending delightfull sparks every which way.

Does that mean that shod horses could theoretically start a brushfire? :yikes:

 

[boaty]

My horses have a knack for finding the hardest quartz and sending delightfull sparks every which way.

And if they're anything like the horses I've known they'll throw those sparks happily all day until you actually want them to do it, when they'll give you this look as if to say "what planet are you on?" :roll:

 

[MartiniDave]

"Does that mean that shod horses could theoretically start a brushfire?"


No Kath, they can't hold the char cloth :roll:

Dave

 

[Adi007]

"Does that mean that shod horses could theoretically start a brushfire?"


No Kath, they can't hold the char cloth :roll:

Dave

:rolmao:

 

[Gary]

Have only skim read most replies on here so forgive me if I REPEAT ANYTHING.

Kath, you are correct a spark is essential a lump of molten metal - cooled and view under magnification they are small round balls of metal.

Success in making fire with natural sparks be they quartz, flint or whatever is really down to preparation of fire site and tinder.

Tinder which is dry and ready to take a spark is paramount - char cloth or amadou catch your spark and smoulder so these need to be correctly made and dry also.

One trick with charcloth is to fold it onto itself once a spark has caught - by doing this or by adding another section of char cloth you will build a bigger ember - the bigger the ember the better your chance of ingniting your tinder.

Hope that helped.