Glass - Oldest known production
- Thread starter TeeDee
- Start date
It's uncertain. We don't know if the first glass objects (found in Iraq) dated from nearly 4000 years BC (IIRC) were made on purpose or by accident - they are beads. However, glass making made significant leaps from then on.
Thanks for that - so when did it become more a refined process ? when , I guess the question is , did windows or vessels become a thing?
Faience is now really two things.
Originally it's non clay ceramic....mostly quartz/ sand, so the first glass.
Later on the name is used for tin glazed ceramics.
If you look up Faience and bear in mind that you're looking for the earlier meaning, there's a lot online, not just in academic texts.
Beads, little moulded images, etc.,
Originally it's non clay ceramic....mostly quartz/ sand, so the first glass.
Later on the name is used for tin glazed ceramics.
If you look up Faience and bear in mind that you're looking for the earlier meaning, there's a lot online, not just in academic texts.
Beads, little moulded images, etc.,
Ah, I thought Faience was differentiated from glass as it was used as a glaze and made from quartz not silica based - thanks for that.
Last edited:
Glass is basically melted sand. Well, it was. Sintered, melted together with heat and pressure, but not liquidised. So, faience, the original faience, being non clay based, and usually quartz sand, is kind of the first glass, the precursor, and the first step in moulding, etc., that led to the wonders of those ancient beads, amulets, vessels, etc.,
Now you're confusing me; I thought the very definition of faience was that it was made of quartz. I appreciate it has 'glass like qualities', in terms of it's gloss and texture etc. but I thought it was always opaque, can it be transparent? If so, I've been working from the wrong base line 
I'm also confused and clearly out of my depth.
When was what we know as Glass ( transparent and or coloured intentionally or not ) found in usage for such things as basic windows , basic glass bottles
Sorry - I may have not posed my initial question as specific as i needed too.
When was what we know as Glass ( transparent and or coloured intentionally or not ) found in usage for such things as basic windows , basic glass bottles
Sorry - I may have not posed my initial question as specific as i needed too.
Again, and to the best of my knowledge, Roman, 1st C BC for windows - usually small pieces held together with lead. I don't believe there were clear glass bottles until much later - but I may be wrong on that. It does seem strange that we had bottles and clear glass (probably more translucent rather than transparent) but not clear bottles 
Toddy will be along soon
Toddy will be along soon
You asked about rudimentary glass, so that's faience.
Glass as in transparent (mind opaque can let through a lot of light, old lanterns were made with fine slices of horn) then it's Mesopotamia about 4,000 years ago, made from sand, soda and lime, iirc.
Glass as in window panes.....well it's has to be poured and it has to be poured onto something flat (the bullseye was where the last of it fell) that will take the heat without leaving the glass full of impurities.....window glass, as we know it, was poured/rolled on metal tables. This all comes much later. Glass was expensive, labour intensive, even if it was just made from sand. The claim is that it was first produced 1st C ad in Alexandria in Egypt.....it was Roman at that point though.
This one's made of iron, but I know of reenactors who make wooden ones, and they claim they have provenance for them.
Now you're confusing me; I thought the very definition of faience was that it was made of quartz. I appreciate it has 'glass like qualities', in terms of it's gloss and texture etc. but I thought it was always opaque, can it be transparent? If so, I've been working from the wrong base line
Sand is mostly quartz, silicon dioxide, it's hard, resists wearing, etc.,
Faience, as in pieces, not as a glaze, was made by heat and pressure and the resultant blob pressed into a mould to make the desired shape.
It's is 'glass', and over time that was developed and the artisans added in other minerals, like the lime, to create more clarity.
Now we add lead to our glass to create crystal and even finer clarity and brightness...flint glass.
Faience....
Selection of Ancient Egyptian Faience Amulets - St James Ancient Art
An excellent selection of Ancient Egyptian turquoise and blue faience amulets depicting various deities and symbolic objects. All but one have a loop for suspension. The faience comes in either glossy or matte finish. N.B.: Price is for each.
www.ancient-art.co.uk
Sorry to disagree, we are getting into detail here, sand is mostly silica (silicon dioxide, as you say), quartz is considered an impurity, though its quantity will vary depending on the geology of the source. If faience is made from quartz I can't see how it's primary material can be sand. I suspect there is a difference between talking about material and chemistry and describing archaeological objects.
Oh boy, it looks like the academics are far from specific in the definition of the two as well! An article on ancient artefacts quotes the British Museum in trying to differentiate glass and faience - I think I'm going to stop delving 'cos it's a rabbit warren - I'm going to adopt the view that faience is a glass precursor or that 'true' glass is completely fused whereas faience is not.
Sorry TeeDee, off the exact topic again!
We didn't have true, transparent, glass panes until the Middle Ages - just to bring it back
Sorry TeeDee, off the exact topic again!
We didn't have true, transparent, glass panes until the Middle Ages - just to bring it back
Similar threads
