Food for a week in a PLCE Side Pocket - Paul Kirtley

[Hammock_man]

If I had £10 to spend on a meal I'd hike to the nearest cafe.

In the area quoted a taxi could cost a bit more than a tenner!!! BUT the Tenner would buy me a Rat Pack not a meal. The tenner earmarked for the 2nd meal would pay some one to carry it all for me

In truth, The idea of a weeks grub in a side pouch I found most, most interesting.

 

[Tengu]

Prudent planning.

I like the idea of space saving too...Ive never gone without a car, but sometimes you need to cut down on space even then.

When in camp I use a 20ltr barrel as a food container, but I should be putting it in the kitchen box (an old fishing seat which has all sorts of junk in it, such as a folding sink, and several types of stove...Why several? Because I pick up manky old gas cans from the car boot (last one was about half full but set me back 15p...) and I can be sure of a stove that will fit them.)

 

[GGTBod]

It's a good vid Paul and made me subscribe to your blog, definite food for thought, i promise my last pun of the day

 

[santaman2000]

For most people without special health considerations I agree. The exceptions would be those who do indeed have special dietary needs: I'm diabetic, my daughter's a celiac, etc. Also while a short trip such as a week doesn't sound too bad in and of itself, you also need to consider just how often you do those trips. Are you doing them once a month? Twice a year? There's a big difference in the overall, long term effect based on that frequency.

As said, for most people with no special needs, and only a few weeks a year to go on such outings, there's not likely to be any problem.

 

[Paul K]

@santaman Granted there always have to be considerations for those with special dietary requirements.

As for question over the long term effect if you used this diet frequently, I would argue that if most people reading this thread were hiking hard for a week out of every month, they'd be a damn sight fitter and healthier than they are now. No alcohol and limiting your diet to 3,000 calories per day while undertaking regular and sustained cardio vascular exercise at an intensity and for a duration which burns fat efficiently and exercises major muscle groups would do most people no end of good...

But unless there was a long-term study with a control, all it is is an argument...

Warm regards,

Paul

 

[santaman2000]

......As for question over the long term effect if you used this diet frequently, I would argue that if most people reading this thread were hiking hard for a week out of every month, they'd be a damn sight fitter and healthier than they are now. No alcohol and limiting your diet to 3,000 calories per day while undertaking regular and sustained cardio vascular exercise at an intensity and for a duration which burns fat efficiently and exercises major muscle groups would do most people no end of good........

Hmm. 3000 calories a day (which is actually higher than the recommended 2000 per day) and regular, sustained cardio workouts? Sounds like the exact conditions of GIs returning from the Middle East weighing more than when they left 7 months to a year earlier. Also eating a high carb and high fat diet.

Also the conditions at the various jails and prisons where I worked. Inmates with little or nothing to day every day but work out, and a diet that only produced 2000 calories a day I the very rare instance where they ate absolutely everything on the plate yet continued to gain weight; sometimes gaining muscle if their exercise routine was the weight pile (which has been eliminated in the last few years) but more often gaining fat if their exercise routine was the track or running sports. Don't ask me to explain how or why it worked that way, I'm as much at a loss as you probably are. But none-the-less, that's what usually happened.

 

[Blaidd]

Recommended calories seem to be a problem because they are usually averages. In the UK currently the recommendations are 2000 calories per day for females and 2500 calories per day for men. If you factor in personal differences such as genetics, activity, age, amount of sleep, etc, the range appears to be (both in UK studies and a USDA report from 2010 that I've just read) around 1600 - 2400 for women and 2000 - 3000 for men. (Lower figure sedentary lifestyle, higher figure active). High activity in the Arctic requires 6000 per day I recently read ( but can't remember where ), so I agree that climate also needs to be factored in.

 

[Tiley]

If I had £10 to spend on a meal I'd hike to the nearest cafe.

I have no desire to be small minded but the Expedition Foods 800 calorie main meals and breakfasts cost £6.49. They are generally pretty good and are certainly filling. I do think that some of the ideas in Paul's 'Week's-food-in-a-PLCE-side-pocket' provide a good, readily accessible, cheaper ideas that provide a bit of variety. Other things that I would add to his selection are a modest selection of spices (chili and curry powders, turmeric, etc.), a tube of tomato puree and condensed milk. The latter is both really useful and a real treat, even if it does add weight to the pack.

 

[Paul K]

I have no desire to be small minded but the Expedition Foods 800 calorie main meals and breakfasts cost £6.49. They are generally pretty good and are certainly filling.

Hi Tiley, yes you are absolutely correct. I had in the back of my mind the rough cost of main meal plus custard dessert (actually £13), which is a combo we use as a backstop quick meal while on snowshoeing trips: 1,300+ calories in 250g of food and all you need is hot water. The Turmat packs are, however, around the £10 mark, even in Norway.

All the best,

Paul

 

[Paul K]

Hmm. 3000 calories a day (which is actually higher than the recommended 2000 per day) and regular, sustained cardio workouts? Sounds like the exact conditions of GIs returning from the Middle East weighing more than when they left 7 months to a year earlier. Also eating a high carb and high fat diet.

Also the conditions at the various jails and prisons where I worked. Inmates with little or nothing to day every day but work out, and a diet that only produced 2000 calories a day I the very rare instance where they ate absolutely everything on the plate yet continued to gain weight; sometimes gaining muscle if their exercise routine was the weight pile (which has been eliminated in the last few years) but more often gaining fat if their exercise routine was the track or running sports. Don't ask me to explain how or why it worked that way, I'm as much at a loss as you probably are. But none-the-less, that's what usually happened.

@santaman I'm not really sure what you are getting at. We are not talking about prisons or GIs working in hot climates (where calorie requirements for keeping warm are vastly reduced) on sustained diets of MREs. It seems like you have just decided to argue with me for the sake of it because you personally don't like the food in the side-pocket; and I remind you, that was the aim - to get a week's worth of food, with sufficient calories, into a side pocket. It is not even an excessive amount of calories for most outdoor activities and would be insufficient for many hiking, skiing, snowshoeing or canoeing trips I have done. There is a tonne of literature on what foods work for long distance hiking, both anecdotal and more scientific. Moreover, there is plenty of well recorded expedition data from the likes of Dr Mike Stroud on caloric intake and output as well as effects on muscle mass, body fat, blood sugar, cholesterol, etc. I would recommend anyone interested in this area to read his book 'Survival Of The Fittest' before even entering into a conversation on this topic...

It is generally considered that most male's basal metabolism burns around 1,500 calories/day; someone with a sedentary life 2,000-3,000 (we use the average 2,500 often); three-season backpacking 3,000-4,000 calories per day; winter trekking 4,500-5,000+ calories per day.

3,000 calories per day is really the minimum you should be packing for an active 3-season trip. Hence, my desire to reach that goal with the side pocket menu.

I'd be interested to see a listing of the menu of your last 3-seaon hiking trip which lasted more than a couple of nights (a short enough time period where significant caloric deficits can easily be overlooked).

Rather than criticising and augmenting your argument with spurious anecdotal evidence, please be more constructive and offer up a workable alternative...

Thanks and warm regards,

Paul

 

[rik_uk3]

Tortillas also work pretty well Rik. Are any of the ones you listed similar to what we call crackers?

Your American crackers/pilot biscuits would be similar to 'cream crackers' in the UK IIRC.

Ryvita is a hard rye biscuit
http://www.ryvita.co.uk/products many are available in the States an American chum buys them.

Pumpernickel is German rye bread, sliced thin, lasts for ages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpernickel Its like Marmite, you either love it or hate it, I love it.

Pita (or Pitta depending on your spelling) bread is just a simple but thicker flat bread which really came over from the middle east. You can buy a packet of six for 50p/75cUS which unopened last for months and will last several days after opening without refrigeration. Heated over coals or a stove they 'puff up' and you split them and fill with filling of choice kebab style.

Mexican style 'wraps' have really taken off in the UK the last few years, again you can get long life packs as I'm sure you can over there with you.

 

[santaman2000]

@santaman I'm not really sure what you are getting at. We are not talking about prisons or GIs working in hot climates (where calorie requirements for keeping warm are vastly reduced) on sustained diets of MREs.....

We were talking about lots of exercise and amount of food. I gave you examples. Seems pretty straightforward.

 

[santaman2000]

.....It is generally considered that most male's basal metabolism burns around 1,500 calories/day....

Not really.

 

[santaman2000]

Recommended calories seem to be a problem because they are usually averages. In the UK currently the recommendations are 2000 calories per day for females and 2500 calories per day for men. If you factor in personal differences such as genetics, activity, age, amount of sleep, etc, the range appears to be (both in UK studies and a USDA report from 2010 that I've just read) around 1600 - 2400 for women and 2000 - 3000 for men. (Lower figure sedentary lifestyle, higher figure active). High activity in the Arctic requires 6000 per day I recently read ( but can't remember where ), so I agree that climate also needs to be factored in.

But how many actually do Arctic expeds? Some on here do, but now most.

 

[santaman2000]

Your American crackers/pilot biscuits would be similar to 'cream crackers' in the UK IIRC.

Ryvita is a hard rye biscuit
http://www.ryvita.co.uk/products many are available in the States an American chum buys them.

Pumpernickel is German rye bread, sliced thin, lasts for ages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpernickel Its like Marmite, you either love it or hate it, I love it.

Pita (or Pitta depending on your spelling) bread is just a simple but thicker flat bread which really came over from the middle east. You can buy a packet of six for 50p/75cUS which unopened last for months and will last several days after opening without refrigeration. Heated over coals or a stove they 'puff up' and you split them and fill with filling of choice kebab style.

Mexican style 'wraps' have really taken off in the UK the last few years, again you can get long life packs as I'm sure you can over there with you.

Thanks Rik. We get most of those here (Rye, pumpernickel, pita) Yeah, "wraps" are getting more and more popular for non-Mexican sandwiches here as well. Hence my mention of tortillas.

 

[santaman2000]

.....It seems like you have just decided to argue with me for the sake of it because you personally don't like the food in the side-pocket; and I remind you, that was the aim - to get a week's worth of food, with sufficient calories, into a side pocket.....

Actually quite the opposite:
1st) I'm agreeing with you (rather than arguing) that for most people, without other health issues, it would be fine for a week or so on an infrequent basis
2nd) No, I don't dislike what you've chosen, rather I'm more or less addicted to those same types of food.

 

[bearbait]

Thanks Rik. We get most of those here (Rye, pumpernickel, pita) Yeah, "wraps" are getting more and more popular for non-Mexican sandwiches here as well. Hence my mention of tortillas.

Another + for tortillas. I use them a lot as my "bread" when camping in North America. They seem to last several days once opened without apparently going stale. You can freshen them up by sprinkling some water on them and a few seconds a side over a fire or in a frying pan on a stove.

 

[santaman2000]

Another + for tortillas. I use them a lot as my "bread" when camping in North America. They seem to last several days once opened without apparently going stale. You can freshen them up by sprinkling some water on them and a few seconds a side over a fire or in a frying pan on a stove.

I have found that it's best to get the flour ones (when my daughter isn't with me) rather than the more traditional corn ones, as the corn ones can be a bit fragile. TBH though, the flour tortillas have far outpaced the corn ones in popularity anyway.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

How do these numbers change for the female half of the forum? RDA calories for women are 2000 vs 2500 for men. If you're packing 3000 calories for your trip into the hills, should women be aiming for 2500?

I am also curious about ways of increasing the protein take for a trip. Tuna sachets, hard sausages. What are the other options of shelf stable protein?

Julia

Julia

 

[Macaroon]

Dried eggs in bannock is good protein, and gives the bannock a different texture so providing variety; it's also cheap and weighs nothing.