flat grind vs scandi grind, man am i lost

Geoffrey

Forager
Oct 3, 2004
139
0
Maine
Hi all I am wondering if you can help me with some opinions. I, in the past, preferred flat ground knives, ground from the spine down to the edge almost, then a secondary bevel of around 25 degrees added for the cutting edge.

Scandi grind that I am asking about is flat bevels no secondary bevel.

How do the two grinds compare. Truthfully I have not been 100% impressed with flat ground knives in general.

So what are the differences in performance between these two types of grinds. I am planning to move towards "bushcraft" style knives, wood, metal and a scandi grind. What things will I find better or worse with scandi grinds.

I am a scandi "newb" fill me up with info. I have been searching the forums but cant seem to find a good comparison of the two grind types.

Thanks in advance.

Geoffrey.

:You_Rock_
 

Andy

Native
Dec 31, 2003
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sheffield
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this will have been coverd on www.britishblades.com and most likely will have been done better then I will now do

first off there are two types of scandi grind around. Some have a flat bevel and some have the bevel put on by a wheel so have a hollow grind. Full flat grind knives and scandi ground knives are both called flat grind at times. this causes big problems. What you called a scandi grind is also called a sabre grind. I suspect this will now have your head spinning.
I coverd the pros/cons a bit in the review of Shings field knife. so you may want to read that. It's a flat grind which may help you understand all this

The one big bevel (be it flat or hollow) will act much better as a guide when making feather sticks. Since the bevel is so big you get much better feel of the angle your holding it at and it's easier to keep it the same. They also tend to have a smaller final eddge angle. Often quoted as about 20degrees per side though both my mora knives are less then that. (flat grinds are quoted as been about 25degrees per side but this will of course vary) Becasue the final angle is less (total angle difference is 10degrees or in some cases even more) means that when the knife first cuts into the wood the wood doesn't have to move so far so a lower angle will cut better. The large evel will act as a guide when sharpening as well so people tend to find it easier to sharpen a sabre grind (scandi grind). The whole bevel is layed on the stone even if the bevel is hollow ground (normaly not always the case). This means you take off a lot more metal but it's easier to control. If the bevel is hollow grinf you only have to remove metal from the edges of the bevel. In time this will make a hollow grind a flat grind (bevel). The problem with the sabre grind is that it carries on getting thick at the same rate so doesn't slice through stuff once it's got to full thickness.
The difference in how a hollow sabre grind and a flat sabre grind is bes descibed by giving the example of wood shavings. You will notice in the review I suggessted you read that the mora knife cuts very deep into the wood when making feather sticks. Hollow grind final edges have a tendecing to curve inwards. (convex curve outwards)
A flat grind is harder to control when cutting due the to lack of guide which you have with a sabre grind. What it does let you do is very dep cuts like you would want to do during food prep. This is the reason people think kitchen knives are flat grind (they aren't normaly). Becasue there is less metal after the final edge (due to secondary bevel) the final bevel is greater and makes it more difficult to cut wood shavings.

I just tohught I'd point out that most good kitchen knives have a very slight hollow grind to them. This is to stop them sticking to things quite so much.
I'm now wanting to play with funny grinds and wood but can't as I'm back at uni

I hope that helped you
 

Geoffrey

Forager
Oct 3, 2004
139
0
Maine
Thanks, yes my head is spinning some what. So am I to understand that the scandi grind is best for wood work, not for food prep, meat cutting, etc...

Is that a far guess?

Thanks.

Geoffrey
 

mojofilter

Nomad
Mar 14, 2004
496
6
48
bonnie scotland
Geoffrey said:
Thanks, yes my head is spinning some what. So am I to understand that the scandi grind is best for wood work, not for food prep, meat cutting, etc...

Is that a far guess?

Thanks.

Geoffrey

Technically that is about right, but I have never had a problem prepping meat with a scandi, its the vegetables that are a problem, you should try chopping up a turnip with a woodlore, that isnt fun!

stuarty
 

TheViking

Native
Jun 3, 2004
1,864
4
35
.
Having tried both type of grinds, my vote goes for the scandi. The best grind IMO. It's a very good allrounder, but still it's not a compromise. Makes an ideal bushcrafter. :biggthump The angle of the bevel should be around 25 degrees +/-. And they're easy to sharpen too.
 

Adi007

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 3, 2003
4,080
0
Cutting, say, a turnip with a scandi grind blade is normally tickier not because of the grind but the thickness of the blade. "Bushcraft" knives are normally in the region of 4 mm thick. Meat I don't find a problem with but veggies are better suited to thinner blades (2 mm range). Thinner blades are not ideally suited to scandi grinds hence the belief that scandi grinds are not suited for cutting veg.
 

sargey

Mod
Mod
Member of Bushcraft UK Academy
Sep 11, 2003
2,695
8
cheltenham, glos
i would suggest that 25degrees a side is far far too steep. if you take a scandi grind knife with zero secondary bevel, you'll find it's a fraction of that.

i convex the final bevels on non-scandi grinds to the point where they can just be touched up on a sharpmaker at 15degrees a side, it's a nice compromise.

the incrediby thin scandi edges will cut through wood so much better than your average "western" knife, but those thin edges are relatively fragile and suseptable to damage.

cheers, and.
 

Hoodoo

Full Member
Nov 17, 2003
5,302
13
Michigan, USA
I agree with Adi. How well a knife functions in the kitchen is more a function of the thinness of the blade than the type of grind.
 

Andy

Native
Dec 31, 2003
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38
sheffield
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though of course a flat grind (or shallow holllow) will take longer to get to the full thickness.
As I don't deal with meat I like very thin kitchen knives. I am happy to carry a small kiitchen knive out camping if I'm doing much cooking
 

Hoodoo

Full Member
Nov 17, 2003
5,302
13
Michigan, USA
The little scandi with the cherry scales is a dandy kitchen slicer:

scandisthinthick1b.jpg


scandisthinthick2b.jpg
 

mojofilter

Nomad
Mar 14, 2004
496
6
48
bonnie scotland
Adi007 said:
Cutting, say, a turnip with a scandi grind blade is normally tickier not because of the grind but the thickness of the blade. "Bushcraft" knives are normally in the region of 4 mm thick. Meat I don't find a problem with but veggies are better suited to thinner blades (2 mm range). Thinner blades are not ideally suited to scandi grinds hence the belief that scandi grinds are not suited for cutting veg.

You are right Adi, but most scandis I have come across have a thicker blade than, say, a mora and are therefore not the best push cutters of veggies.

This is of course, why we all have an Opinel in our pockets :)

stuarty
 

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