Any suggestions on the best options for a first aid course in the UK that would focus on backcountry requirements, rather than urban first aid?
First Aid
- Thread starter bigjackbrass
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Get your employer to send you on a first aider course.It is compulsory for business' to have a trained first aider so your boss would be grateful for a volunteer! Also the national Geographical society do an expedition based first aid course which should cover your needs.sorry i dont have their site address,but it must be easy to find as i have seen it! 
I think bushwacker bob means the royal geographical socity
if you go to the expedition advisory center section of their website and look under seminars they run a course with wilderness medical training
which is designed for expedition medicine
i have done this course and highly recomend it, though i advise that you have a good knowleadge of first aid before you start as much of it is quite advanced
i would also recomend you read the royal geographical socity expedition medical manual (free to download on the site if you dont want to buy it)
as it will help you understand the course
this can all be found at: http://www.rgs.org/templ.php?page=5expe
if you go to the expedition advisory center section of their website and look under seminars they run a course with wilderness medical training
which is designed for expedition medicine
i have done this course and highly recomend it, though i advise that you have a good knowleadge of first aid before you start as much of it is quite advanced
i would also recomend you read the royal geographical socity expedition medical manual (free to download on the site if you dont want to buy it)
as it will help you understand the course
this can all be found at: http://www.rgs.org/templ.php?page=5expe
bigjackbrass said:
The basics of first aid are pretty much the same wherever you are, the main differences would be the likelyhood of quickly accessing help. I would suggest attending a basic first-aider course initially, then an advanced course, then something specific to expedition or backcountry. Anything that deals specifically with backcountry stuff, will likely assume you have a great deal of knowledge first. Bit like the bushcraft courses, you gotta start with the basics. You dont want to start suturing wounds, if you cant recognise the signs of infection.
I'm a trauma RN by the way, any specific questions and I'll do what I can to answer them.
Thanks for the info and suggestions. I could probably have been a bit more specific in my initial post, I think.
It's quite a while since I did any first aid training, and like most people I was taught how to cope with a problem until the ambulance, or a more qualified person, arrived. Consequently I plan to take a refresher to get back up to speed on this. The suggestion of an advanced course to follow is well noted.
Once that's done, though, I'd like to look into training for situations that might occur when help is not minutes away, and which will tend to focus on the likely problems faced by wilderness travellers. In the wilds one may well be faced with choosing between moving an injured party or leaving them while help is sought, which is not such a likely scenario if you're assisting a choking victim in the local Starbuck's. With that in mind I'm looking for advice on places to get this secondary, more advanced and specific sort of training.
It's quite a while since I did any first aid training, and like most people I was taught how to cope with a problem until the ambulance, or a more qualified person, arrived. Consequently I plan to take a refresher to get back up to speed on this. The suggestion of an advanced course to follow is well noted.
Once that's done, though, I'd like to look into training for situations that might occur when help is not minutes away, and which will tend to focus on the likely problems faced by wilderness travellers. In the wilds one may well be faced with choosing between moving an injured party or leaving them while help is sought, which is not such a likely scenario if you're assisting a choking victim in the local Starbuck's. With that in mind I'm looking for advice on places to get this secondary, more advanced and specific sort of training.
Rob
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Hi all
I had hoped to have the course review written by now - but work has been a bummer, but I hope to have it submitted by the end of the week.
I recently went on an "Advanced medicine for remove foreign travel" course, run by Wilderness Medical Training.
Top course, and will not only boost the confidence of people with the good old First Aid At Work Qual, but goes much further - assuming that help is not going to be easily at hand. Designed for abroad, with medications drips, sutures etc. as well - but I think that it was a valuable bit of training. Try assessing and dealing with someone at night, in the rain and half way down a river bank.
I am happy to answer any direct questions, before or after the review hits the site. The more prepared the better.
I had hoped to have the course review written by now - but work has been a bummer, but I hope to have it submitted by the end of the week.
I recently went on an "Advanced medicine for remove foreign travel" course, run by Wilderness Medical Training.
Top course, and will not only boost the confidence of people with the good old First Aid At Work Qual, but goes much further - assuming that help is not going to be easily at hand. Designed for abroad, with medications drips, sutures etc. as well - but I think that it was a valuable bit of training. Try assessing and dealing with someone at night, in the rain and half way down a river bank.
I am happy to answer any direct questions, before or after the review hits the site. The more prepared the better.
About the drips, just a couple of comment - I wonder at the value of teaching it. Apart from assuming you have a cannula, giving set and fluids, just siting one is a heluva skill in itself. I've sited thousands of the things, but I bet id done anything upto 200 of em (- on real people - )before I considered myself reliably able to get em in. Even now, I fail on occasions. Prolly shouldn't tell you this, but most of us work on a "have a go and if you fail, call someone else" basis. When we're first learning, one attempt is all you get, when you finally get one in, you can move up to 2 attempts, a few more successes and 3 attempts becomes the norm. We generally stop there. Mind you, the viens of young, fit, lean, healthy people makes a huuuuuuuuge difference. I would still be gobsmacked, if anyone at all, could attend a course, then site a cannula in the field, with 0 practice on real people.
Rob
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I agree - applying that sort of stuff in the field is a whole different matter. But if you are on expedition somewhere, and you are prepared, then managing it could save someone's life.
I think it comes down to where you are going, what you are doing - and the availability of outside help.
I think it comes down to where you are going, what you are doing - and the availability of outside help.
Rob said:
Yeah I agree it certainly could. What did they advise you use as fluids out of curiosity? For dehydration, normal saline would be the one, thats water, containing 0.9% sodium chloride, it's an isotonic soltion in that concentration - that's very important. I've read somewhere an article on improvising n/saline in the field using boiled water and salt - cant remember where now. For someone heamorrhaging, a plasma expander is first choice - 6% starch, something like heamohes, or possibly a protein based one like gellofusin (going out of favour). These "colloids" have a tendancy to stay in the circulatory system, because the molecules are too large to pass accross cell membranes. So, they're good for shock as well as heamorrhaging - where you want to give your patient a good blood pressure. You'd probably have this gear if you were going on a major expedition, but you'd also probably have some kind of medic along too.
When i did the Advanced medicine for remote foreign travel course
it took me three attempts to put a cannula in
the guy who practiced on me got it in first time, he did forget to press the vain with his thumb when removing the needle though so we had a lovely pool of blood by the time he worked out what he'd done wrong
i guess what Martyn said about fit lean young people being easier explains it i was 21 where as the guy i practised on was late 40s early 50s
they did explain all the fluids to use they pretty much said all the stuff martyn just explained
most expeditions will have a good supply of medical kit but not a doctor
most will have a medical officer (who will have done a course like the one were discussing)
on large well funded expeditions there will most probably be a doctor as well but he cannot be everywhere and it can take a long time for him to get from base camp to where ever the problem is, in this case it is good to have a number of people around who have done these course and can provide a good level of medical care untill the doc arrives... which could be a day or more
it took me three attempts to put a cannula in
the guy who practiced on me got it in first time, he did forget to press the vain with his thumb when removing the needle though so we had a lovely pool of blood by the time he worked out what he'd done wrong
i guess what Martyn said about fit lean young people being easier explains it i was 21 where as the guy i practised on was late 40s early 50s
they did explain all the fluids to use they pretty much said all the stuff martyn just explained
most expeditions will have a good supply of medical kit but not a doctor
most will have a medical officer (who will have done a course like the one were discussing)
on large well funded expeditions there will most probably be a doctor as well but he cannot be everywhere and it can take a long time for him to get from base camp to where ever the problem is, in this case it is good to have a number of people around who have done these course and can provide a good level of medical care untill the doc arrives... which could be a day or more
Rob
Need to contact Admin...
I did ask them about improvised saline - and was told that it would be too hard to make it, and keep it, sterile.
I am sure that someone out there has probably had a go - and if the brown stuff was hitting the fan somewhere remote, I am sure that someone has used it.
I am sure that someone out there has probably had a go - and if the brown stuff was hitting the fan somewhere remote, I am sure that someone has used it.
Could I just add that pre-hospital use of intravenous fluids in a patient with uncontrolled bleeding may actually be harmful. There has been a fair bit of research published on this.
I agree with Martyn - putting in an iv cannula in a shocked patient with lousy veins isn't easy, and it is usually much harder in the pre-hospital environment. I had done a few as a student, but still faced a steep learning curve in my first job as house surgeon.
BASICS and BASICS Scotland do very good courses, but I think you would have to be a doctor, nurse or paramedic to go on them.
I agree with Martyn - putting in an iv cannula in a shocked patient with lousy veins isn't easy, and it is usually much harder in the pre-hospital environment. I had done a few as a student, but still faced a steep learning curve in my first job as house surgeon.
BASICS and BASICS Scotland do very good courses, but I think you would have to be a doctor, nurse or paramedic to go on them.
An outdoors first aid course is a pre-requisite for the Mountain Leader award, so any of the course providers for that should be able to offer a suitable course. Have a look in the back of any of the popular walking magazines and you should find something.
The British Mountaineering Council web-site should be a good lead too. They also sell a manual - see
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/theshop/asp/prodtype.asp?prodtype=13&iCount=0
They're not aimed at bushcraft but you should get a good choice, and a well-trodden route, this way.
The British Mountaineering Council web-site should be a good lead too. They also sell a manual - see
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/theshop/asp/prodtype.asp?prodtype=13&iCount=0
They're not aimed at bushcraft but you should get a good choice, and a well-trodden route, this way.
I'd agree with tedw
Check out the outdoor press.
I've done any number of courses over the years(I work in the outdoors and like tedw says you need the 1st aid qual to ratify your other qualifications) I would reccomend the BASP Course (British assoc of Ski Pattrollers). The courses I've done with them have been very good and have included all sorts of scenarios with volunteer "casualties", outdoors, up hills at night etc. Yes like most 1st aid courses the assumption is there that help will be coming and that you are stabilising the casualty until the MRT or Helo gets there. However they also recognise that being in the hills it might all take a bit longer than you might want so they look at some of the things you can do in that situation.
You should be able to find them on www.basp.org.uk they do courses up to EMT level but if there are a number of you they can sort out a course specific to your needs as well.
George
Check out the outdoor press.
I've done any number of courses over the years(I work in the outdoors and like tedw says you need the 1st aid qual to ratify your other qualifications) I would reccomend the BASP Course (British assoc of Ski Pattrollers). The courses I've done with them have been very good and have included all sorts of scenarios with volunteer "casualties", outdoors, up hills at night etc. Yes like most 1st aid courses the assumption is there that help will be coming and that you are stabilising the casualty until the MRT or Helo gets there. However they also recognise that being in the hills it might all take a bit longer than you might want so they look at some of the things you can do in that situation.
You should be able to find them on www.basp.org.uk they do courses up to EMT level but if there are a number of you they can sort out a course specific to your needs as well.
George
i think if you look at old books you may be able to pick up more for the countryside as the modern first aid courses are made more simple so that people who wont kep up to date can remember it easier. after all you dont tend to get many injuries that are text book anyway. I've had to d first aid when both the casualty and I were upside down. (I was in St Johns for six years)
I haven't done the first aid course with them but the climbing courses are first rate great facilities.
would recommend them.
wayne
would recommend them.
wayne
Have a look at wilderness medical training. They seem to be up there with (pardon the pun) Their finger on the pulse
http://www.wildernessmedicaltraining.co.uk/
http://www.wildernessmedicaltraining.co.uk/
High Peak First Aid Training in Derbyshire come highly recommended.
http://www.hpfa.dircon.co.uk/
The run 3 levels of wilderness first aid courses and are reasonably priced. I'm booked onto there basic course at the end of the month. I'll let you know what it's like.
http://www.hpfa.dircon.co.uk/
The run 3 levels of wilderness first aid courses and are reasonably priced. I'm booked onto there basic course at the end of the month. I'll let you know what it's like.
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