fire steel help please

[ilan]

fire steel What sort of steel and flint is best to make it work tried a piece of flint on the tang of a metal file and did not get a spark ? . I have got a piece of steel from cromwells and was hoping to make a knife from it whilst leaving a small area at the rear of the handle to act as a striking plate will that work after hardening and tempering ? thanks ilan

 

[Longstrider]

I don't know exactly what the "best" steel is for the job, but I believe that any hardened high carbon steel should produce sparks with a good piece of flint. The tang of many files is not hardened like the rest of the thing, so you might find that you are trying to get sparks from too soft a piece of steel doing that. If it's an old knackered file, try grinding the teeth off the edge of the blade and try using that.
Terms that I have heard of as being particularly good steels for the job are Sliver Steel, and Key Steel (I think) but someone like Jason 01 who makes the things will know far more than I do on the subject.
You should in theory be able to get sparks with a flint and any carbon steel knife-blade, but I know for a fact that it can prove to be damned hard work with some knives.(I have given up trying to get a useable spark with Cold Steel knives made of "Carbon V" steel) Making a knife with an exposed tang to use as a strike plate seemed a good idea to me until I thought about how rough and "snaggy" the striking surface of my fire steel has become with use. I was going to incorporate just the same idea into a knife that I am making at the moment (my first from scratch) but decided against it due to the chance of ending up with an uncomfortable handle that could even give metal splinters (which are NOT funny)

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

if it is a new fire steel it may still have a coating on it, (it keeps it shiney in the packet) just scrape the firesteel liberally(not to create sparks) to remove the coating (it's like a very thin varnish or wax).

the flints i used to buy (and still do in some survival kits) come supplied with a short piece of hacksaw blade!
find a hacksaw blade file off the teeth and you'll have a striker!
(or keep the teeth to have a handy spare saw )

i have never had a problem with sparks what i teach is that the stroke is longer and more firm, not a glancing blow or swipe, like you were trying to carve a piece of wood.

though it will teporarily mark your knife, i use the blade to create sparks, try a few things you'll find something works!

 

[Goose]

I think he means a "proper" steel not ferrichromium, or however you spell it!
I have got lots of sparks from files, and made a firesteel out of mild steel bar. The bar I had to case harden, heat and drop into carbon powder, this gives a thin layer of carbon steel on the outside. Then I heated and dropped into cold water, this seems to work but I think I am using up the carbon layer as it gets harder to find a place on the steel that sparks.
The flint I have is black flint that I picked up from grooveski's flint knap demo, are you using a sharp edge of flint? You are scraping a layer of steel off the fire steel and need quite sharp edge, it actually gets blunt and doesnt work so well after a while!

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

in which case i agree, old file seem a poular choice.
i have been told just take the rough area off and bend it to shape!

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

by the way if you need a flint take a day trip to Norfolk, cromer and sherringham in particular have many tons on their beaches!

 

[Goose]

in which case i agree, old file seem a poular choice.
i have been told just take the rough area off and bend it to shape!

A file is already carbon steel, so just bending it to shape would work. The steel I used wasn't carbon steel so it needed case hardening. I dont't think you need to take the rough area off for it to work I have used just a file for sparks. But you would need to heat and quench the file after shaping it, all to do with the way crystals form apparently, if it cools slowly it is less brittle but wont work as well.
Beech nut dropped his firesteel in the fire and it stopped working, after heating and quenching it worked again, swissnic put a link on this thread which gives more detail than I could. http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=13110&highlight=fire+steel

 

[ilan]

mant thanks for the info think i did not get a sharp enough edge on the flint as i just cracked open a small pebble thanks ilan

 

[Fenlander]

There is a good tutorial here that may help. http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=11739&highlight=flint+steel

I just bought this one from Gary at Epping Firesteels.


I had it specially made to fit my buckskin neck-pouch, but he makes a standard kit of a steel. flint, charcloth all contained in a tobacco tin. They cost about £15.

 

[Jeff Wagner]

tried a piece of flint on the tang of a metal file and did not get a spark ? .

A file really should work. Perhaps the tang has been annealed and its hardness reduced??

 

[firemaker]

I have quite a bit of experience with making forged items, especially flint and steel striker knives. Striker knives were actually traditional although pictures are not that common. The first one I made was a reproduction of a traditional style of a single picture I came across that was fixed blade. Here are a couple from a book called Fire Steels.

The tang of a file wont spark because it is not hardened at all so that you can apply pressure on a handle with out fear of it breaking at that point. And some files will not spark at all because they are only case hardened mild steel. The best scrounged steel for making a striker would be a high quality file such as an American made Nickelson or equivalent. If a flint is chewing up the back of your steel, chances are the steel is not that well hardened, or is made from a milder steel, poorly crafted. It is also surprising to find that the handle is not at all uncomfortable and fits the hand rather well.

If you have any questions on how to make one, please ask. I'm always willing to share knowledge (as well as learn it).

Good luck!

 

[ilan]

wow thanks for that . will give it a go ilan