Failed again, but..

[oetzi]

Today I went for a short hike in the woods. To get some fresh air and a new appetite and to make fire. It had rained continously for the last twelve hours, but fortunately there was only some drizzle left.
I took with me a Firesteel, charcloth and some dried bark. At a convenient sheltered spot I decided to give it a go:
The wet leaves were removed from the ground and dry twigs (picked from the de lower and dead branches of some conifers nearby) placed on the ground tp protect against the moisture.
Charcloth was put on a piece of dry bark and with the firesteel I was succesful in creating some ember.
But I didnt manage to transfer it to the collected wood or bark or develop a flame. No matter what, I only suceeded in producing a lot of smoke.
Only by adding some morsels of paraffined sawdust I was able to produce a
flame. But I couldnt keep it alive and everything was again reduced to a smouldering heap. After 1.5h I admitted defeat and walked back...
But there is was one thing I will distinctively remember. When for that first time the ember transformed in a flame whoose warmth I felt in my face my spirits raised and I had a somewhat archaic sense of joy. Making fire is such an elemantary task, it touched me deep down and makes me want to try it again.

 

[Abbe Osram]

I noticed one thing why we often fail to get a fire in wet condition.
We take to little twigs to start the fire, I mean you need tons more of what you think you should have. The fire will have to warm up the damp masses of twigs you pile on. The next I noticed is that we play and poke around in the fire toomuch.
Dont touch the fire, the moment you play around with it you kill the build up of heat to start the damp twigs. The small flames will have to warm up the damp twigs dont kill it buy lifting it up, let is smoke the smoke is the water after a short while it will start burning. If you lift it you will cool it down again.

Try out to have the twigs laying not like a messy heap but put them nicely all laying shoulder to shoulder length wise. So that the heat can build up between the twigs.
Build the fire in a way that small breeze which often is found in bad weather get the full space to reach the fire, dont block the breeze to reach the fire, standing in front of the fire poking in it, allow the wind to reach the fire.

Dead birch is great, find it remove bark and you will find some drie wood.

cheers
Abbe

 

[oetzi]

Thank you for the tips!
I hope this helps me to solve my main problem, which is making the step from ember to a flame.
cheers

 

[Abbe Osram]

Thank you for the tips!
I hope this helps me to solve my main problem, which is making the step from ember to a flame.
cheers

np mate, but this is no law, you have to experiment. Sometimes when there is no wind at all you might lift the entire fire with your hands and get new air into it.
But I learned a lot in the last year about fire, and one thing I did was poking around in the fire a lot. I dont know why but I could not let is rest. Then I learned that the sami are very tuff on their kids not to poke around. And I stopped doing it. Give the fire peace. Specially birch is sensible to poking around. Then I had always my fires like a pyramid, that might be ok to start but then I learnd that the wood need a partner to burn. No logg burns without a friend near to him, to keep the heat between the both its better to have them long side by side, in that way the logs get the heat from the entire length and not only on the crossing point.

But every day is different and the situation change please dont hit me if my technic doesnt work for you every time you are out there mate.


good luck mate
yours
Abbe

 

[rich59]

Fire in the damp? Tricky. But if you have some material dry enough to rub to crumbs then you can do it. I have practiced the following at home and intend to do it out in the wild next chance I get. My determination arose from an ignoble failure like yours (but watched!) during a damp scout night hike.

1) As you walk collect - several hand fulls - early in the walk, the driest stuff you can find of stuff that would normally rub into crumbs/ dust if dry - leaves, grass, dead flower heads, bark that will form your tinder. Carry it close to your body during the walk where it can get loads of warmth from you (turning it occaisionally) and not covered by plastic. When you are ready to make fire it will be the driest stuff around.

2) Also collect early on loads of the tiniest kindling - dead twigs no more than a match diameter. Treat in the same way as 1).

3) Onto a dry surface ( a piece of clothing for instance, on some dryish under material) rub a good hand full of your tinder several times to get it pretty crumbly.

4) Then onto a prepared surface to start the fire take (using finger tips) most of your crumbled tinder and form it into a firm pile. Make an indentation on one side. The remainder on your cloth will be almost pure dust. This is "gold dust". Transfer that dust into the indentation on the side of your tinder.

5) Then get your dried kindling and tie it into a bundle. Place another handful or two of your tinder material (shredded a bit) on top of your pile and immediately place the kindling bundle on top of the tinder pile. This stabilises the tinder pile against wind, gets dried out by the heat of the tinder and will take the flames directly.

6) Then create your coal and push it into the gold dust pile. Very gently blow. Dont rush it. The material will still be damp and the first minute or so will just be drying out from the heat of your coal. Gradually blow more to extend the coal into the gold dust. Nudge the rest of the tinder more tightly round it while still keeping up a gentle blowing. As the bulk of the tinder dries this too will take the glow. Again take it slow. Blow too much too soon and just the glow will spread. Doing it slowly the material can dry in the heat. Finally blow into flame.

This way at every step you use the heat you already have to dry the next larger size material.

 

[wolf]

I noticed one thing why we often fail to get a fire in wet condition.
We take to little twigs to start the fire, I mean you need tons more of what you think you should have. The fire will have to warm up the damp masses of twigs you pile on. The next I noticed is that we play and poke around in the fire toomuch.
Dont touch the fire, the moment you play around with it you kill the build up of heat to start the damp twigs. The small flames will have to warm up the damp twigs dont kill it buy lifting it up, let is smoke the smoke is the water after a short while it will start burning. If you lift it you will cool it down again.

Try out to have the twigs laying not like a messy heap but put them nicely all laying shoulder to shoulder length wise. So that the heat can build up between the twigs.
Build the fire in a way that small breeze which often is found in bad weather get the full space to reach the fire, dont block the breeze to reach the fire, standing in front of the fire poking in it, allow the wind to reach the fire.

Dead birch is great, find it remove bark and you will find some drie wood.

cheers
Abbe[/QU
this is great advice.

 

[Biddlesby]

I must agree with the leaving it alone to do it's stuff principle...it's amazing what a smouldering heap can turn into given time and an absence of people poking it with sticks.

Good tips here.

 

[Jeff Wagner]

Fire making in wet conditions is where punk wood really saves the day. Even in a downpour I can find suitable rotten wood from deep within a dead standing tree. A tiny fungus ember from a fire piston placed between two pieces of punk is soon a growing coal. More punk placed on top of and around the coal becomes a source of heat sufficient to dry and alight damp twigs and shavings. This method works so well it can be done directly on the snow. I lay a section of bark or split limbs down as an initial base and place the punk on top. As the fire grows the heat melts away a cavity in the snow all the way down to bare ground. I used this method last Tuesday to warm up after a cold morning hunt during our blackpowder only deer season. When its time to extinguish the fire and move on, just kick the snow down into the pit to smother the flames, coals and all.

 

[Abbe Osram]

Fire making in wet conditions is where punk wood really saves the day. Even in a downpour I can find suitable rotten wood from deep within a dead standing tree. A tiny fungus ember from a fire piston placed between two pieces of punk is soon a growing coal. More punk placed on top of and around the coal becomes a source of heat sufficient to dry and alight damp twigs and shavings. This method works so well it can be done directly on the snow. I lay a section of bark or split limbs down as an initial base and place the punk on top. As the fire grows the heat melts away a cavity in the snow all the way down to bare ground. I used this method last Tuesday to warm up after a cold morning hunt during our blackpowder only deer season. When its time to extinguish the fire and move on, just kick the snow down into the pit to smother the flames, coals and all.

thanks mate for the tip, never thought of it.
Will try it out next time.

I just remembered that one can even start a fire in wet condition with fresh and alive willow twigs, the little water which is in the twigs will escape fast and you get a fire, there is more water in a dry standing timber when it has been soaking in the rain for some weeks than there is water in a fresh and alive willow twig.
Here again you will need lots and lots and lots of willow twigs in the start up. Why? because the heat of the little start up will have to warm up the entire pile, heat has to trap between the twigs, you don't get that heat build up only with some little twig's you feed the fire now and then with.

Then again dont poke in the pile around while its buiding up heat.

cheers
Abbe

 

[oetzi]

Thanks a lot folks, I am truly hooked on this and will continue to try and learn!

 

[falling rain]

Happy new year Oetzi.

In the wet I lay a platform as you did. Prepare everything I need which is. - feather sticks or shavings from dry dead wood as thin as I can make them and A LOT of them. A ball sized bundle about the size of a grapefruit and fairly tightly packed but not TOO tight. A good bundle of dry buffed up clematis bark is also excellent if you have it. Split some dead wood with your knife and a baton, again as thin as you can make them. (you can always find dry dead wood. Even if it looks soaked try splitting it and you'll be surprised how dry it can be inside) 2 good handfuls should be enough. Then gather your thin hanging dead twigs from the branches of trees and prepare some thicker kindling from some more dead split wood. Gather your larger fuel ( 1 inch or so in thickness) and split again into quarters if soaked and when you've done all this you're ready to light your fire.
Place your ball of long thin shavings/Clematis bark onto the platform. Pack fairly tightly.
If you can get good sparks from your fire rod you can light the shavings straight from the sparks. If not use char cloth to spark onto which is placed in the tinder bundle, blow into flame and add the very thin split dead wood gradually building to the larger stuff. and you twigs. A rough rule of thumb is when the flame is leaping well clear of the fuel you can gradually add the next grade up.

Oh, and I'll second the advice that other than when gently adding fuel, leave the fire alone and let it build

Good luck

 

[pierre girard]

Today I went for a short hike in the woods. To get some fresh air and a new appetite and to make fire. It had rained continously for the last twelve hours, but fortunately there was only some drizzle left.
I took with me a Firesteel, charcloth and some dried bark. At a convenient sheltered spot I decided to give it a go:
The wet leaves were removed from the ground and dry twigs (picked from the de lower and dead branches of some conifers nearby) placed on the ground tp protect against the moisture.
Charcloth was put on a piece of dry bark and with the firesteel I was succesful in creating some ember.
But I didnt manage to transfer it to the collected wood or bark or develop a flame. No matter what, I only suceeded in producing a lot of smoke.
Only by adding some morsels of paraffined sawdust I was able to produce a
flame. But I couldnt keep it alive and everything was again reduced to a smouldering heap. After 1.5h I admitted defeat and walked back...
But there is was one thing I will distinctively remember. When for that first time the ember transformed in a flame whoose warmth I felt in my face my spirits raised and I had a somewhat archaic sense of joy. Making fire is such an elemantary task, it touched me deep down and makes me want to try it again.

Nothing's for sure with making fire, but I've been lucky.

Here's what I do. I gather a lot of the small dead branches from spruce or balsam - like you did. If it is wet, I split them with my knife - to reach the dry center. I also pick up larger diameter stuff - that is somewhat sheltered from rain - and split that in graduations down to toothpick size. I build a little teepee of the dead balsam branches. I have everything else the fire will need for the first 20 minutes - right to hand. Preparation is everything.

For my fire kit: Right now I lost my best steel and am using one that doesn't do well for sparks, but all it takes is one. My best flint is a large amber French flint I found at an old encampment site. As the French left this area in the 1760s, I've always felt rather good about that flint.

In fall, or early winter I pick a lot of dead brown weeds (the really thin stuff). I stuff several tubes of birch bark with it. Paper birch is good. Yellow birch is better. I carry an oilskin bag of these tubes with me on treks. If it is nice and dry out - I use something else and save my tubes.

For char I use birch fungus - the stuff that is blackened and corroded looking - not the white stuff. I carry a little can of it. Same with the bark, if it is dry out, I collect the fungus in the woods and save what is in my can for a rainy day. I strike into the can for an ember.

I place the ember in the birch tube and blow. As soon as it flames (most always right away) I stick it in the little teepee of kindling I've built. Seems to work. I once won $20 starting a fire with flint and steel in the Olympic Nat'l Rain Forest in Washington state. Took a while, but I got it going.

I've been able to get a fire going with flint and steel - when it was too damp to get a fire going with a match or lighter. Once you get the hang of it - you really start to rely on it.

My kids got me some kind of modern striking thing. Has some magnesium that you are supposed to scrape into a pile to strike into. Have never got that part of it to work yet, but the striker sure produces a ton of sparks compared to my old flint and steel. I save it for a really rainy day.

PG

 

[Adi]

pierre girard.... you have lots of good advice in this thread and others. Do you have any photos of these skills you use, i am sure many on here would appreciate seeing images of you in the elements deep in your wilderness environment.

Abbe has post some quite stunning images throughout the forum and he has more on his site, everyone comments on his images.

 

[British Red]

Thanks a lot folks, I am truly hooked on this and will continue to try and learn!

oetzi,

Heres some more advice to ignore if you wish.

1. Try to take you kindling from above the ground. Snapped branches on living trees, ded trees, dead falls etc. Why? If it lying on the ground, its absorbing water all the time. If its standing but dead, the xylem and phloem (tree capiliaries) are no longer drawing water in, but rain is being shed. If its on the ground, its drawing up water all the time the ground is damp.

2. Silver birch bark for tinder (not kindling) is the best way to go with you fire steel. You know the stuff - looks like tissue paper peeling away from the trunk. Tease this stuff away gently! It should be so thin its transparent. Take some pieces of birch bark from a dead tree home with you. Let it dry out on the window sill. Tease it into tissue paper with your finger nails when watching TV one night. Make a loose ball (size of a golf ball) with it and put the ball on a plate. Strike your fire steel onto it. I guarantee it will light to flame in 3 strikes without char cloth.

So. now you know you can do it - try outdoors. Then try gathering the stuff as you go. But as pierre says, always carry a tin with dry tinder and replenish when you can

Red

PS, if you would like photos - just shout and I'll do some

 

[pierre girard]

pierre girard.... you have lots of good advice in this thread and others. Do you have any photos of these skills you use, i am sure many on here would appreciate seeing images of you in the elements deep in your wilderness environment.

Abbe has post some quite stunning images throughout the forum and he has more on his site, everyone comments on his images.

Hate to say it, but l;ately my element has been go to work, go home and fall in bed. Fish are hitting out on the lake and I can't manage to walk 10 yards to put in a hole and catch some.

Unfortunately, I'm not much of a photog. Wing got me a digital camera about three years ago, but every time I look for it, someone else has got it.

I have some photos on the computer, but my son just re-formated the computer and says the photos are not available yet (why? I don't know).

When they become available - I'll see what I can put up.

Abbe does have excellent photos. I have quite a few wildlife and nature photos from a canoe mate, but he is a pro and they are all copyrite. I'd have to get permission to display them. Great photos.

PG

 

[FruitBatInShades]

I recently had a similar experience. I took a girl I like out into the woods for a bit of bushcraft the other day. It had been raining for days, no problem I thought, lots of birch trees around.
Off I go, loooking in the branches for dry, dead tinder. Collect fatty birch bark, feather it, strip it. All looking good. Except that day I couldn't light a fire for love nor money.
I was gutted, I couldn't light a fire at all. Thinking back over it I was too busy chatting to pay attention and didn;t want to leave her on her own while I went off to collect better stuff.

Lesson, keep your mind on the job.

 

[rich59]

Yep. It is one thing to be able to light a fire by your chosen technique in a familiar place and on your own. It is quite another to do it being watched or somewhere else. It is all part of the learning experience.

In case you haven't noticed my thing is hand drilling. It was a long time before I could move out of the shed. It was many more months before I could show someone else. Doing it at a different site took a year or more.

I think the same applies to any bushcraft skill.