Sense doesn't come into it. Making money does. It saddens me that folk still think Capitalism should make sense.
Ever not known how you feel about something?
- Thread starter British Red
- Start date
Modern economics is a closed book to me !
I cannot see the way that this works at all - but then neither does ripping out all our great native apples and importing apples from the other side of the world!
I cannot see the way that this works at all - but then neither does ripping out all our great native apples and importing apples from the other side of the world!
I guess that's right enough - farmers have to make money, and if this does, good luck to them - they have to make a living. I can see it from their perspective - its just the wider picture that makes me scratch my head. I can't see how that makes sense.
When I see this kind of thing, Im always reminded that Im seeing evidence of some dark dystopian future, or a theory from an excerpt which I've always found quite reassuring, oddly.
According to Tainter's Collapse of Complex Societies, societies become more complex as they try to solve problems.
Conversely, Its also true, that what seems to be non-sensical, on the surface, is probably sensible, as in order to solve complex problems, the solutions often have to become more complex than the problem was.
There's a lot of evidence suggesting this is the only way you can solve these kinds of complex problems.
I reckon, one school of thought cancels out the other, and in the end, individual greed always wins.
According to Tainter's Collapse of Complex Societies, societies become more complex as they try to solve problems.
Conversely, Its also true, that what seems to be non-sensical, on the surface, is probably sensible, as in order to solve complex problems, the solutions often have to become more complex than the problem was.
There's a lot of evidence suggesting this is the only way you can solve these kinds of complex problems.
I reckon, one school of thought cancels out the other, and in the end, individual greed always wins.
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It seems strange to me that people should use useful land for producing beer and racehorses as they do round here.
Or that we let rough grazing go to waste when it could be used for pasture. (There are many breeds of livestock that thrive on it) There is so much rough grazing in this country
Or that we build on allotments when there is a waiting list for them. (thus creating an instant slum instead of encouraging thrifty citizens)
Or that we let rough grazing go to waste when it could be used for pasture. (There are many breeds of livestock that thrive on it) There is so much rough grazing in this country
Or that we build on allotments when there is a waiting list for them. (thus creating an instant slum instead of encouraging thrifty citizens)
Ahh right, i can see why your looking at it this way now. Opposed to a waste of corn crop what you have seen is a reverse in the use of land thus a waste of crop space that was giving food...? I kinda missed your angle of perspective tbh (mornings!). I can get that, i mean it is not a waste of corn or even food directly; however if we ignore profit and think of the country on the whole it is illogical, yes. However we are in a global market with profits where £££'s talk and farmers like £££'s.
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Me too I think it is the global elephant taking up most of the room and resources
On the original topic I empathise strongly but surely deriving energy from what we consider a food source is preferable to other means I specifically mean fracking which seems insane to me
Oh I have no moral objections to producing energy from plant material...its just that we then have to bring food over vast distances...which consumes the energy we just created...?
It's been very common to do that for years for silage, i.e. forage maize. I only realised this year they do the same with barley, i.e. harvest it green and pulp to feed to cows as silage which is higher in nutrients than grass.
I'm not completely sure of the economics of keeping cows under cover for the whole year and then endless silage harvesting & muck spreading cycle, let alone growing biofuels on land suitable for food crops.
widu13
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Erm, no they don't. I used to work in a slaughter house as a kid and even back then tumored or diseased animals were disposed of. I am a "qualified" trained hunter through a government scheme and I can tell you right now that tumored or diseased animals are not used for ANYTHING. I suspect at least one of the members here will be most perturbed by your assumption that he is selling diseased or unfit meat.
Where does your data come from?
Very true - its the use for a "non food" purpose that's new to me. I guess I'm just old
"...these farms are on a knife edge to survive and if they can make more money chopping up crops to turn them into energy rather than sell them as food, well, good luck to them....its probably a result of our drive for cheap food, combined with the rising cost of energy that makes it work. It just makes me go "huh?" to see enormous machines shredding hundreds of acres of food crops to rot them down in a controlled way
It is odd, I'd be curious to know what if any subsidy was given to the farmer to grow that crop and how intensive the pest control processes were.
In Hungary, up until recently anyway, the state has limited 'foreign' ownership of farmland which has allowed smaller family run farms and cooperatives to survive without competition from much larger 'corporate' farming groups and companies. However the arrival of large supermarkets and wholesalers who can afford to bring in food stuffs from outside Hungary his dealt a fatal blow to the small farmer. Last year the news carried footage of farmers burning maize in their stoves, they couldn't sell it at a profit and couldn't afford to move it further afield where it might of sold.
I suppose at least it wasn't being moved a long distance before it was burned.
On the subject of cows, the Hungarian Grey is a very very old breed (it looks like a small grey Auroch), it can rough graze, breed and deliver calfs without human assistance and shrugs off rough weather.
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I can see what you're saying Red, (I think a fair bit of the green energy sector is a bit of a con, allowing people to carry on as normal while they think they're being environmentally friendly but when you look into the numbers they're not).
However, is there much difference between harvesting maize for bio-digestion and growing short rotation willow for co-fueling power stations? If not, is there much difference between growing SRC and normal firewood?
However, is there much difference between harvesting maize for bio-digestion and growing short rotation willow for co-fueling power stations? If not, is there much difference between growing SRC and normal firewood?
I once worked in a meat canning factory which had no objection to canning tumoured or diseased meat. They're logic was the tins are being cooked at such high temps, anything untoward would be broken down anyway. That meat came from local slaughter houses. That company, who shall remain nameless had at that time exclusive contracts with M&S (St.Michaels) and the MOD (ration packs). The Military ate it and the toffs ate it but the workers fed it to they're dogs.
Hows that for ''data''?
widu13
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Then plainly that's illegal as condemned meat cannot lawfully be sold. That's not "normal" practice.
My father was a butcher his whole life and worked off and on in slaughter houses as they paid better wages. His stories suggest it is indeed normal behaviour.
My mother was a chef and worked in some well known hotels. She could also lift the lid on ''normal'' practices.
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