Environment, Action and the Old Days

[C_Claycomb]

MOVED FROM
https://bushcraftuk.com/community/index.php?threads/in-the-news-today.150983/page-4#post-1910845
I posted these because they were interesting and in the news. Perhaps I should have known that a factual post from the BBC about an environmental issue would generate 80 odd posts, most of which are anything but useful.

As has been suggested, I have moved all the resulting dross out of the News thread and into its own space. Had I not done this, anyone who was following the News thread for interesting news would probably have quit in disgust. I know how I felt when I came back and saw the action and explosion of posts...none posting up any new news.

If I wasn't a moderator I might be tempted to post in support of some views expressed here, or against others. However, I am a moderator, so the thing that bothers me isn't the opposing views, but rather the way that they have been expressed, and how expressing them took over a thread.

Predictable indeed.

**************************************************************************************************************
ORIGINAL POST:

Climate Change.
Gas used in high power electricity generation insulation 23,500 times more potent as a warming gas than CO2.
"...leaks of the little-known gas in the UK and the rest of the EU in 2017 were the equivalent of putting an extra 1.3 million cars on the road"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49567197


Hazel nut picking and child labour in Turkey....where your Nutella comes from.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-49741675​

 

[Woody girl]

I wasn't aware of the first one. That was kept quiet and we all swallowed the lie. Glad to know about it. Another arrow for extinction rebellion to fight with.

The Nutella thing I listened to on radio 4 this morning. I have a bumper crop of nuts this year so I'm looking at making my own anyway, .......even more so now.

 

[Janne]

Child Labour is a sad fact, unfortunately very important part in feeding the often very large families.

Remove the income they bring in and the families risk starvation.

Remember, when European countries were dirt poor, we had child Labour too.

Extinction Rebellion? Averybody, including them, you and me, use electricity. So we all contribute to the use of that gas.

What do you think they can do? Disrupt people’s life and demand that somebody fixes the problem?

 

[Woody girl]

Extinction Rebellion? Averybody, including them, you and me, use electricity. So we all contribute to the use of that gas.

What do you think they can do? Disrupt people’s life and demand that somebody fixes the problem?

I know that's why I said they kept that quiet. What do I think we can do? I'm not advocating we all stop using electric but we do need to do something rather than just shrug our shoulders and say oh well what can you do.
I've just caught a repeat of the program and they could have solved the problem many years ago, but as usual it boiled down to profit now instead of thinking about the future effects.
From the way you said extinction rebellion I guess you don't hold with it?
May I be wrong!
The problem does need to be fixed so why not demand that it is fixed.
If you vehicle is on the road in a dangerous condition people would be quite correct to demand that it was fixed despite any disruption that might cause to your life, as it could cause a little bit more than a bit of disruption to others lives.
Perhaps that's a bad analogy but it's the best I can do this late at night

 

[Janne]

The profit chase is unfortunate, but it is the profit that is taxed and the money is hugely important for the society.
Also, those profit positive companies can afford research and development of new tech. Plus they can employ people. Profit negative companies close down.

I personally believe that, as we are in a post glacial warming period, We can not do anything about it. We are accelerating it, but in the whole it does not matter. If the average temp rises 1C in 150 years or 400 years, it matters not.
Media, and various organizations, seems to put the blame mainly on us in the developed world, but it is the developing world that messes up nature the most.
But, can we blame them, wanting decent life’s, healthy and content children?
We messed up our own environment during our early strive for a quick economical development. Now we are very clean, cleaner that we have been for at least a century.

Organizations type Greenpeace, this latest one (ER) and the rest, do nothing where it matters most. Meaning countries that pollute most.
They cause damage, disruption, loss of earnings for hardworking people.

I found it interesting that nobody talks about that these profi protesters usually live off benefits, ie do f... all and scrounge off the hard working and taxpaying citizen?

Whose life’s they like to disrupt?
No, I do not agree with them. I despise them!
Live as correctly as you can, teach by example, teach your children.

That is the correct way forward.

 

[Woody girl]

The profit chase is unfortunate, but it is the profit that is taxed and the money is hugely important for the society.
Also, those profit positive companies can afford research and development of new tech. Plus they can employ people. Profit negative companies close down.

I personally believe that, as we are in a post glacial warming period, We can not do anything about it. We are accelerating it, but in the whole it does not matter. If the average temp rises 1C in 150 years or 400 years, it matters not.
Media, and various organizations, seems to put the blame mainly on us in the developed world, but it is the developing world that messes up nature the most.
But, can we blame them, wanting decent life’s, healthy and content children?
We messed up our own environment during our early strive for a quick economical development. Now we are very clean, cleaner that we have been for at least a century.

Organizations type Greenpeace, this latest one (ER) and the rest, do nothing where it matters most. Meaning countries that pollute most.
They cause damage, disruption, loss of earnings for hardworking people.

I found it interesting that nobody talks about that these profi protesters usually live off benefits, ie do f... all and scrounge off the hard working and taxpaying citizen?

Whose life’s they like to disrupt?
No, I do not agree with them. I despise them!
Live as correctly as you can, teach by example, teach your children.

That is the correct way forward.

That's a bit harsh tarring everyone with the same brush without having ever personally engaged with anyone!
What about the teenagers and pensioners? I'm sure they will be pleased to learn they are nasty money leaching layabouts.... as it seems I am too by your reckoning. Seeing as you know very little about my circumstances I find that a bit rich that you could attack my life in such a dismissive and vitriolic way.
That's very sad. I'm sure your grandchildren will be thanking you when they are your age.... if they manage to live long enough!
When this happens I know I'm on the right track. So thank you for spurring me on to greater efforts.
Incidentally I do not hold with the drone thing at airports but if it brings the discussion to the forefront where it needs to be then I guess they are making a point.
Anyway I thank you for the attack on my character and that of many though not all of my friends. And will redouble my efforts to convert the ignorant!
Now I'm off to support the kids fighting for their future.

 

[Fadcode]

Always surprises me that no matter what the discussion is about it ends in tears...................no wonder we are having trouble with Brexit, for some reason people nowadays are unable to face the truth, we are all guilty of aiding climate change, we are all using electricity to power the computers the phones, etc, etc, and we are all guilty in believing the crap spouted out by newspapers, TV etc,

You want to fix climate change, it,s easy, pay the people in Brasil money so they don;t have to burn down the trees to grow food, demand all shops, Airports close on Sundays and all cars are banned from the roads on a Sunday, lets call Sunday a "Family Day", close down everything at 4pm daily that needs electricity to keep going including the internet , and the people who are willing to fly drones around airports and endanger peoples lives..........just shoot them, they want tp play dangerous games, they should be willing to face the consequences.

Climate change can be managed, although it is a natural occurrence, we are helping it along with our life styles and if you are not willing to make drastic changes in your lifestyle, then it will just go along to a point where it starts to decline and go the other way, something its done from the start of time, 10,000 years ago the UK was under a mile and a half of ice, before that the buffalo, bears etc roamed the land, the land came back and we seperated from mainland Europe, the world is and has always been in a state of flux, we have always been able to manage, now it seems we are far too clever to understand that, nature will win in the end, no matter what we do.

 

[Woody girl]

Shoot them????? Oh dear.civilisation has come a long way.... let's just create civil war and have done!!!!

 

[Fadcode]

Well lets face it, if they were in Syria, Afghanistan etc, we would shoot them without a second thought, and I personally don't like discrimination, whats good for the Goose is good for the Gander. Equality is fair., isn't it. That's part of our problem we are a bit too civilised at times.

 

[Woody girl]

It doesn't make it right. Kindness towards others and reasoned conversation gets you a lot further along the road rather than testerone fuelled aggression.

 

[Fadcode]

Tell that to the people that had to sit in an Airport for hours or had their flights and holidays cancelled, because of these idiots.
"testosterone fuelled aggression", isn't that a sexist remark, or is that kindness towards others?..........................LOL

 

[Janne]

I wrote in broad terms, did not attack you.
I am commenting on the ‘average’ protester, and yes, I have met and discussed with a few over the years. The latest protest I had a close encounter with was against oil and gas exploration outside Lofoten.

So you mean the ER protesters that disrupted London ( for example) , that most had a job?

I have friends that were badly affected by those protests. I think that ER lost many sympatisers during their actions.

 

[GuestD]

Some pretty uncomfortable posts going on here. Last place I would ever go for a holiday would be via an airport, and as for "scrounging" statements ? sort of goes hand in glove with the Daily Fail, and those who read it. There's not much going to change in what time I have left, so it's about time those under the age of 30 made a greater impact on the future of their world, than have it laid out for them by a bunch of ignorant old gits that have all but destroyed theirs.

 

[santaman2000]

It doesn't make it right. Kindness towards others and reasoned conversation gets you a lot further along the road rather than testerone fuelled aggression.

Well; sorta. Reasoned conversation has a more peaceful result certainly. Unfortunately that in and of itself contributes to the long term problem. How? You may ask. Simply put, reasoned discussion and the social success of those discussions lead to social advancement. Social advancement leads to technological advancement (hopefully some of those advances lessen pollution in the short term) social and technological advancement lead to longer lifespans. Longer lifespans lead to an ever burgeoning population. The ever burgeoning population leads to more pollution and heightened aggression.

At the end of the day, all new solutions create new problems.

 

[santaman2000]

Some pretty uncomfortable posts going on here. Last place I would ever go for a holiday would be via an airport, and as for "scrounging" statements ? sort of goes hand in glove with the Daily Fail, and those who read it. There's not much going to change in what time I have left, so it's about time those under the age of 30 made a greater impact on the future of their world, than have it laid out for them by a bunch of ignorant old gits that have all but destroyed theirs.

We were all under 30 once. And just as idealistic as the current generation. We grew up though. So will they.

 

[Janne]

Me, when young I was a Hawk. Now I am just a Cockerel......that is losing his feathers.......

Archeology: Did you guys and gals read about the analysis of some early Bronze Age Tin ingots they found in Israel?
Analysis show the tin was mined ( and processed?) in todays Cornwall.

Incredible how excellent trade networks and society organization they must have had.
And we know not much about it.
Overland, using rivers, by the sea?

 

[GuestD]

 

[Fadcode]

Some pretty uncomfortable posts going on here. Last place I would ever go for a holiday would be via an airport, and as for "scrounging" statements ? sort of goes hand in glove with the Daily Fail, and those who read it. There's not much going to change in what time I have left, so it's about time those under the age of 30 made a greater impact on the future of their world, than have it laid out for them by a bunch of ignorant old gits that have all but destroyed theirs.

Well surely that's the problem, blame "the ignorant old gits" for today's problems, but remember a lot of those survived in times the youngsters of today couldn't, they made sacrifices during and after the war, that gave them the right to a better life, but they had to work and work hard to do it, not like the youngsters of today who want everything on a plate, protesting exactly what will that achieve, what do they think a Govt can do?, despite this country being one of the few who have done something about climate change, if they want to do something, tell them to throw their phones and computers away, and do tell them to blame it on the "ignorant old gits" and anyone who reads the "Daily Fail", and the people who go on Holiday, via Airports, but not the celebrities who zoom over from New York via first class to join their demonstrations, or the "Corn Child" who goes by boat to the US, despite 5 people having to be flown over to the US to sail the boat back. Don't say anything that can make them face reality, they get enough of that on social media.

 

[GuestD]

Well surely that's the problem, blame "the ignorant old gits" for today's problems, but remember a lot of those survived in times the youngsters of today couldn't, they made sacrifices during and after the war, that gave them the right to a better life, but they had to work and work hard to do it, not like the youngsters of today who want everything on a plate, protesting exactly what will that achieve, what do they think a Govt can do?, despite this country being one of the few who have done something about climate change, if they want to do something, tell them to throw their phones and computers away, and do tell them to blame it on the "ignorant old gits" and anyone who reads the "Daily Fail", and the people who go on Holiday, via Airports, but not the celebrities who zoom over from New York via first class to join their demonstrations, or the "Corn Child" who goes by boat to the US, despite 5 people having to be flown over to the US to sail the boat back. Don't say anything that can make them face reality, they get enough of that on social media.

Let them get on with it and make their own beds. Politics in a bushcraft forum will only succeed in dividing the members, nothing else. Too much about yesterday and not enough about tomorrow.

 

[Janne]

I will never say anything bad about a person with quite severe mental disorders, it is not the fault of that person, but those people using such person should be put to jail.
For a long time.

I would like Extinction Rebellion chain themselves to the gates of China's coal fuelled powerplants.
I do not think the Chinese police would cut the chains.

Environment politics should/must lead to a better environment, in the own country first.
But, investment in reforesting suitable tracts of land in foreign countries is a very good idea, if it can be done costing less than reforesting in the own country.

The Governments should fund reforestation, creating undisturbed wildlife corridors between human habitation, elevate parts of roads and railways to facilitate movement of the wildlife.
I hope that Scotland the country will 'meet' the Danish guy, and match his investments and reforestation programme.


Maybe using the unemployed in the nature rebuilding schemes?? Like during the Great Depression? Give them some self worth, help everybody including ( mainly) the environment?


And - refuse to do the work leads to removal of the benefits?

Is that to draconian? Too much demanding a basic level of responsibility of the population?


Your 'Sunday Family Day" idea is not as Sci-Fi and far fetched as you think.
here, most shops, including supermarkets, are closed. Only Restaurants, cafees, bars and petrol stations are open. and Garden centers.

Sundays are lovely here. Roads empty. Quite and nice.
Every country should do that.