DSC Level 1

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Klenchblaize

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 25, 2005
2,610
135
65
Greensand Ridge
Having just taken DSC Level 1 after some 20 + years of avoiding it my views for its value remain extremely mixed. What then do you think about it other than “Trained Hunter” status is now all but mandatory if you wish to do anything other than consume the carcass yourself and acceptance that passing suggests no more than a candidate has demonstrated a certain limited standard of understanding c/o of modular building blocks?

Nothing controversial then and please don’t mention the shooting test!

Cheers
 

Matt.S

Native
Mar 26, 2008
1,075
0
36
Exeter, Devon
I'm no deer-stalker but I can't see any realworld advantages other than a stalking license by thte back door, which we do not need. I suspect it's being encouraged by plod to pass the buck if something goes wrong.
 

PeterHW

Forager
Dec 31, 2005
116
0
U.K.
As you say needing the DSC1 to lawfully sign off a carcass to enter the food chain has made it madatory for those seeking to obtain stalking rights from any of the large institutional landowners .... or even smaller farmers these days who might look to profiting from the sale of venison means you have to have this qualification .... infact having just done your DSC1 I would suggest staying on the "bandwagon" and getting registered for your DSC2 and do your accompanied stalks as soon as possible .... as the correct manor for dealing with a gralloch has previously changed and is likely to keep changing ..... in line with those whose jobs seemingly require them to justify their existance by "improving" matters .... and the sooner you do these with current training .... the easier it will be.... and sadly DSC2 is actually required now by the said "landowners" more often than not if bidding individually or looking to join a syndicate ....

Essentially therefore the hoops have been created and we need to learn how to "jump" ....

The history of why they were created is a bit of an own goal for those concerned about just how many "hoops" there needs to be to enjoy a shooting hobby .... but for those who take conservation and management of Deer very seriously .... it was deemed a necessary step in their opinion .... and they campaigned for the relevant legislation .....

What you get out of it is perhaps what you bring to the table .... if your keen to learn it certainly does no harm .... if you are old school who see it as a hinderance .... then it will not be as enjoyable .... however there are always some issues on these courses .... and whilst I came along "keen and open minded" I suppose being "old school" myself I was bound to find some of this "painful" ....

What irritated me was the attitude of the main instructor on my course .... others were fine .... but this one in particular would never miss an oppertunity to "offer his opinion" on rifle calibre/scope choice and anything else he could think of .... and he was "the expert" .... he also had a link to the local gunsmiths and had many "new and enlightened" customers from the attendees who IMO were buying into a lot of needless "upgrades" .... because he would denounce certain makes and types of scope all in favour of his own "kit" .... and seemed to me to be profiteering from the course ....

He had no "bites" from me though .... and to his visible irritation I still managed to pass .... but the guy we had for the gralloch side of the course was a much more modest bloke .... and more knowledgeable too .... the disease recognition side of things he taught really well and just for that it was worth going on .... so in hindsight I think it was'nt so bad overall ...
 
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on a aside

can you tell me or point me at the legal HSE food handling requirements for the stalking knife used for gralloching specifically the Cleaning and steralisation required for a stalker / Trained hunter (not the requirements for butchering etc)

trying ot work out if stabalised woods are acceptable i know G10 and Micarta are (well i think i do ;) )
 

GordonM

Settler
Nov 11, 2008
866
51
Virginia, USA
Shooting Assessment A range based shooting assessment requiring the placement of 3 shots in a four inch circle at 100 yards, followed by a series of shots at a simulated deer target in three positions, prone, sitting or kneeling, and standing.

Got this from the British Deer Society. What position is the 3 shots in a four inch cirle at 100 yards taken from? What distances are the shots taken at the simulated deer target? Is the trained hunter portion in respect to carcass processing?

Thanks,
Gordy
 

PeterHW

Forager
Dec 31, 2005
116
0
U.K.
on a aside

can you tell me or point me at the legal HSE food handling requirements for the stalking knife used for gralloching specifically the Cleaning and steralisation required for a stalker / Trained hunter (not the requirements for butchering etc)

trying ot work out if stabalised woods are acceptable i know G10 and Micarta are (well i think i do ;) )

The regulations are the "Food Safety ( General Food Hygiene ) Regulations 1995 (as amended to date) .... the recommended minimum standards mentioned therein are clarified by the L.A.C.O.T.S. publication "Wild Game 1997" again perhaps amended to date.

The relevant wording is not a lisst of approved substances .... rather it simply says that the blade and materials should be designed not to harbour contamination .... mention is made of "none porrous" materials .... so plastic, G10, micarta and stabilised woods should be OK .... plastic and G10 are what the H&S inspectors like to see .... so long as it is not Antler .... as that is given as an example of what not to use .... and also so long as it is not a folder .... that is what they mean by "designed" not to harbour contamination .... meaning the joint area and inner frame of the folder.

Things may have changed from my day though .... almost sure to .... the bring out amendments frequently .... but the above references should see you on your way via Google to the right current information.
 

PeterHW

Forager
Dec 31, 2005
116
0
U.K.
Shooting Assessment A range based shooting assessment requiring the placement of 3 shots in a four inch circle at 100 yards, followed by a series of shots at a simulated deer target in three positions, prone, sitting or kneeling, and standing.

Got this from the British Deer Society. What position is the 3 shots in a four inch cirle at 100 yards taken from? What distances are the shots taken at the simulated deer target? Is the trained hunter portion in respect to carcass processing?

Thanks,
Gordy

The 100 yard group is taken from the prone position .... then you move on to the Deer Target and shoot on it from the prone position.... then you dress forward and from memory you shoot from kneeling or sitting at 50 yards and from standing at 25 yards. You can use a bi-pod from the prone position and shooting sticks if you would use them when stalking when you are shooting from kneeling or sitting and then the standing position. You cover more than just carcass preperation on the trained hunter portion as far as I remember from the training. You need to cover aspects of safe shooting regarding backstops .... lighting conditions .... line of sight .... things like not shooting over a Highway or within certain distances from the Highway .... this is all from memory though and it was a number of years ago .... so it is not a word perfect answer.
 

GordonM

Settler
Nov 11, 2008
866
51
Virginia, USA
Thank you PeterHW that makes it more clear. I am a certified Hunter Education Instructor with the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries and enjoy deer hunting immensely. Very good to see how others conduct hunter training.

Gordy
 

Klenchblaize

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 25, 2005
2,610
135
65
Greensand Ridge
As you say needing the DSC1 to lawfully sign off a carcass to enter the food chain has made it madatory for those seeking to obtain stalking rights from any of the large institutional landowners .... or even smaller farmers these days who might look to profiting from the sale of venison means you have to have this qualification .... infact having just done your DSC1 I would suggest staying on the "bandwagon" and getting registered for your DSC2 and do your accompanied stalks as soon as possible .... as the correct manor for dealing with a gralloch has previously changed and is likely to keep changing ..... in line with those whose jobs seemingly require them to justify their existance by "improving" matters .... and the sooner you do these with current training .... the easier it will be.... and sadly DSC2 is actually required now by the said "landowners" more often than not if bidding individually or looking to join a syndicate ....

Essentially therefore the hoops have been created and we need to learn how to "jump" ....

The history of why they were created is a bit of an own goal for those concerned about just how many "hoops" there needs to be to enjoy a shooting hobby .... but for those who take conservation and management of Deer very seriously .... it was deemed a necessary step in their opinion .... and they campaigned for the relevant legislation .....

What you get out of it is perhaps what you bring to the table .... if your keen to learn it certainly does no harm .... if you are old school who see it as a hinderance .... then it will not be as enjoyable .... however there are always some issues on these courses .... and whilst I came along "keen and open minded" I suppose being "old school" myself I was bound to find some of this "painful" ....

What irritated me was the attitude of the main instructor on my course .... others were fine .... but this one in particular would never miss an oppertunity to "offer his opinion" on rifle calibre/scope choice and anything else he could think of .... and he was "the expert" .... he also had a link to the local gunsmiths and had many "new and enlightened" customers from the attendees who IMO were buying into a lot of needless "upgrades" .... because he would denounce certain makes and types of scope all in favour of his own "kit" .... and seemed to me to be profiteering from the course ....

He had no "bites" from me though .... and to his visible irritation I still managed to pass .... but the guy we had for the gralloch side of the course was a much more modest bloke .... and more knowledgeable too .... the disease recognition side of things he taught really well and just for that it was worth going on .... so in hindsight I think it was'nt so bad overall ...
Interesting observations.

Here are a few of mine based on what I either overheard or discussed on my course and in no particular order:

1. A lot of people of have said how easy they found DSC1 to pass to which I would say yes, but surely only because we studied the course content to permit answering the questions correctly! After all there was no way of knowing in advance which of some 500 questions were going to be asked.

2. The interactive course lectures I enjoyed most were the deer ID and shot placement ones. The former being concluded by pre-exam “revision” that entailed our lecturer asking students to identify an often indistinct beast by make, model, age and if of winter/summer pelage.

3. Student participation was mandatory for the shot placement exercise and involved indicating the correct point of aim with a laser on deer offering anything from a fully broadside exposure to the frankly unshootable. Great fun and oh how sorely tempted I was on one tricky proposition not to have pointed to the spine and explained that upon the beast collapsing like a sack of spuds I would rush over and, in the blinking of an eye, stick it with a knife! I just wasn’t brave enough though and even when noting the lecturer belongs to my rifle club.

4. As purely an observation I suspect that the high pass rate for the shooting test would be significantly less if the standard DJV roe target 10 ring was used rather than that of the very generous scoring enclosure of the DMQ silhouette.

5. Somewhat ironically I came away totally committed to obtaining DSC2 ASAP even though I’m very disappointed to learn that I cannot present historic evidence of hill stalking, carcass preparation or larder work in the context of beasts culled between 1982 – 2005 with Forestry Commission Scotland.

Cheers
 

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