Doing bushcraft without a tractor and trailer

johnboy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 2, 2003
2,258
5
Hamilton NZ
www.facebook.com
- Rucksack (Karrimor Sabre 75 litre with PCLE pockets - total 100 Litre)
- Sleeping bag (Woodlore), tarp (Jacks R Better) and ground mat (thermarest)
- DD Travel Hammock
- Stove (Primus Omnifuel) with 600ml liquid fuel
- Gransfors Small Forest Axe (A bushcraft essential accoring to Raymondo)
- Small knife
- Map, compass, pocket GPS (my navigational skills are not that reliable yet !)
- Millbank bag, and steriliser
- Leatherman multitool
- Sharpening stone and axe file to keep my axe and knife sharp during (hopefully) intensive use on all that dead wood I'm hoping to find.
- Zebra Billy can packed with spork, fire steel, washing-up sponge
- 2 litres of water in a dromedary bag (about a day's worth)
- 1 change of socks, underwear, long-sleeve shirt
- 1 Fleece for those cold nights
- 1 lightweight waterproof coat (Rohan)
- 1 pr waterproof overtrousers for our great british weather
- Simple first-aid kit
- toothbrush & lightweight shaving kit
- Trowel for the necessaries (leave no trace and all that)
- Woolly hat and gloves

Food for 5 day trip...

5 evening meals...

- (mix of boil in bag rice and noodles)
- 5 Oat-so-simple sachets of porridge for breakfast
- chocoloate bars and biscuits for nibbles on the move during the day.
- 4 or 5 sachets of powdered soup.

Hi Springer,

your 5 day trip on Dartmoor sounds fun and you kit list seems to be reasonable. You look to be packing for the most part a traditional backpacking load for UK upland travel apart from all of the 'bushcraft' kit. Below is the kit I'd leave out for a trip on Dartmoor as you discribe in your original post.

- DD Travel Hammock
- Gransfors Small Forest Axe
- Small knife
- Millbank bag, and steriliser
- Sharpening stone and axe file
- 2 litres of water in a dromedary bag (about a day's worth)

Here are my reasons why:

- DD Travel Hammock

You're trying to cover both bases with ground dwelling kit and the Hammock and the penalty for that is weight. Plan on sleeping on the ground and you can ditch the hammock. Once you're out camping on open moorland than you'll have precious few trees. Ground dwelling is more flexible than Hammocking especially when traveling in moorland or open terrain you don't have to find somewhere to pitch a hammock.

- Gransfors Small Forest Axe

Ditch it it's heavy to lug around and again on open moorland you're not going to find anything to chop up with it.. If you're sticking to the moorland fringes and woods like Bellever or Fernworthy then maybe you'll have a use for it but I have one and have carried it about and for 99% of the time I can find enough dry fire wood lying about with out resorting to axe weilding. If you're planning on building 'northern woods' style lean to's or shelters then that's a different matter. If it's just 5 days bimbling around enjoying yourself then do you need it?

- Small knife

'You're knife is your Life' maybe if you're 1000 miles from civilization in Boreal forrest and have the requisite skill set to extract the most out of it. Camped 1 K from Two Bridges it might just be weight you don't need to lug around. Your Leatherman will probably do 90% of the cutting tasks you'll need.

- Millbank bag, and steriliser

Good bits of kit when you're out in the Ulu and the water quality is highly suspect. Dipping you're waterbottle in Devonport Leat after a quick shuftie for dead sheep upstream has served a legion of Moorland ramblers and you have the ability to boil your drinking water on the Omnifuel stove to kill any bugs if you really want to.


- Sharpening stone and axe file

Redundant if you're not planning on taking an axe and knife...

- 2 litres of water in a dromedary bag (about a day's worth)

Dartmoor is wet hence a lot of rivers have their sources there.. You'll not need to lug around 2 ltrs unless Dartmoor has been suffering from a Drought.
A 1 ltr bottle ( or 58 pattern Army issue water bottle) is a good Idea you might want to take the MSR bag along and leave it empty and use it for water collection for camp in the evenings to save

A. having to camp near running water which might keep you awake
B. having to bimble back and forth to the water source when camping

ok from you list stuff that you might be able to improve on weight wise is as follows:

- Rucksack (Karrimor Sabre 75 litre with PCLE pockets - total 100 Litre)
You might get a lighter sack but If you already have this then it's unlikely you're going to ditch it and relace it with an UL 'thru hiking' sack for 5 days on Dartmoor. You might consider ditching the PLCE pockets and getting everything in the main Sack.

- Sleeping bag (Woodlore), I've looked at these and they always look bulky to me which chews up room in your pack. I've no Idea which one you have rating wise. If you trip is going to be in Spring Summer than taking along a 4 season rated bag is over kill IMHO A three season bag would be sufficent.


- Stove (Primus Omnifuel) with 600ml liquid fuel
The omni fuel is a good bit of kit but it's a heavy option for a solo traveller. A simple Gas stove would serve just as well and release some weight.

My advice is based on the assumption ( perhaps incorrect) that you'll be travelling more than sitting about 'practicing bushcraft skills'.

Dartmoor is great and you'll enjoy it immensely. Camping out on the moor is a nice way to spend a few days.. You should aim to have a night at Sandy Hole Pass GR 622815 it's a good spot and out of the wind...

The above should make a dent in the quoted 28 kg's but carrying normal 'Backpacking' kit and 5 days reasonalbly normal food is never going to make for a lightweight rucksack before you add in all of the 'Bushcraft' stuff like axes saws and knives etc..
Also you might want to check waht the sitauation is on open fires on the moor. Oh and if you're going to be their during the week also check on what Ranges are active.

Cheers

John
 

PRKL

Nomad
Jan 27, 2010
272
1
Finland
Hi folks

I am very new to the whole subject of Bushcraft and I seem to be having what I'm guessing may be a common problem for us newbies.

Being the impulsive type, when I get into something I can't resist getting stuck in in a big way. So I bought myself some Ray Mears DVDs and have now read quite a few books on the subject, and surfed the web looking for more experienced advice on what kit is usually "needed" for Bushcraft (as opposed to just camping).

Here's what I 've got, based loosely on what a lot of the books/DVDs talk about using (without going into major details)...

- Rucksack (Karrimor Sabre 75 litre with PCLE pockets - total 100 Litre)
- Sleeping bag (Woodlore), tarp (Jacks R Better) and ground mat (thermarest)
- DD Travel Hammock
- Stove (Primus Omnifuel) with 600ml liquid fuel
- Gransfors Small Forest Axe (A bushcraft essential accoring to Raymondo)
- Small knife
- Map, compass, pocket GPS (my navigational skills are not that reliable yet !)
- Millbank bag, and steriliser
- Leatherman multitool
- Sharpening stone and axe file to keep my axe and knife sharp during (hopefully) intensive use on all that dead wood I'm hoping to find.
- Zebra Billy can packed with spork, fire steel, washing-up sponge
- 2 litres of water in a dromedary bag (about a day's worth)
- 1 change of socks, underwear, long-sleeve shirt
- 1 Fleece for those cold nights
- 1 lightweight waterproof coat (Rohan)
- 1 pr waterproof overtrousers for our great british weather
- Simple first-aid kit
- toothbrush & lightweight shaving kit
- Trowel for the necessaries (leave no trace and all that)
- Woolly hat and gloves

Food for 5 day trip...

5 evening meals...

- (mix of boil in bag rice and noodles)
- 5 Oat-so-simple sachets of porridge for breakfast
- chocoloate bars and biscuits for nibbles on the move during the day.
- 4 or 5 sachets of powdered soup.

By the time I've added that little lot (give or take a few other tiny bits and pieces) I have a backpack weighing a mighty 28KGs !!!! WAY too heavy to carry more than about 100 yards (for me anyway).

Can anyone advise me where I'm going wrong. I have looked at the above list over and over, but can't think of anything much I can take out of it, at least not without losing valuable bushcraft capability, but on the other hand, if I leave everything in, and keep that weight in the sack, I won't be going anywhere anyway. It's a lose-lose situation. I must be doing something wrong. I'd really appreciate an experienced pointer or two if possible.

Thanks for any help.

i think you need to win in lottery to get all these in one go:D
No offence in any means,buddy,but at first you dont have to be so picky in tradenames and brands i think,just get the essentials like knife and backpack in good quality and others can be somewhat moderate,like do you really need your boiling vessle to be Zebra and just Zebra,etc?
By all means,if you have money to toss in the game,just go and buy the best gear in one go,but if you disappoint to this hobby that has become a lifestyle,life direction,church like to many of us:) others..then you have loads of expensive gear getting nop use,just dust on them,and u wont get good price by selling those ever,im afraid.

Still,nice to see men so excited about bushcrafting and investing into it too.
 

springer5

Full Member
Mar 9, 2010
84
0
Carmarthen, Wales
- Millbank bag, and steriliser

Good bits of kit when you're out in the Ulu and the water quality is highly suspect. Dipping you're waterbottle in Devonport Leat after a quick shuftie for dead sheep upstream has served a legion of Moorland ramblers and you have the ability to boil your drinking water on the Omnifuel stove to kill any bugs if you really want to.

- Sleeping bag (Woodlore), I've looked at these and they always look bulky to me which chews up room in your pack. I've no Idea which one you have rating wise. If you trip is going to be in Spring Summer than taking along a 4 season rated bag is over kill IMHO A three season bag would be sufficent.

You should aim to have a night at Sandy Hole Pass GR 622815 it's a good spot and out of the wind...

John

JonBoy

Brilliant post. Thanks. You make a good case for things I should leave behind.

Just a couple of things though....

- I have never had any experience of drinking "untreated" water, so to speak. I (wrongly perhaps) thought that water in the UK *could* potentially be contaminated with cysts (Giardia and crypto- something or other). Are you saying that I don't need to treat the water at all?
If I could be totally confident that I won't ingest anything nasty from untreated stream water anywhere in Dartmoor then I'd be happy to ditch all the filtering/purifying stuff, but I need to clarify if that's what you're saying please. I suppose I could boil everything, but that will use quite a lot of fuel I guess.

- The Woodlore bag is the smallest one they sell (Osprey - 3 seasons) but I agree it's still fairly big by down standards. I must admit it is pretty comfy though :confused:

Thanks for the recommendation of Sandy Hole Pass, I'll put that one on my "try to visit" list.

I've started to weigh all my kit today, one item at a time and am recording the weights of everything on a sheet of paper, then I can juggle with the numbers to try and get a good compromise between range of kit taken and overall weight. To be honest, this is great fun (sad I know), an interesting "eye opener" of the weights of everyday things you just take for granted at home. You pile it all in thnking "that doesn't weight much, that feels fairly light" etc, etc, but then you pick the whole bag up (or can't pick it up, more to the point) and you realise how little it takes to add up. A good learning curve. If prepping for the trip is this much fun, what's the trip itself going to be like - life doesn't get any better !!!
 

johnboy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 2, 2003
2,258
5
Hamilton NZ
www.facebook.com
- I have never had any experience of drinking "untreated" water, so to speak. I (wrongly perhaps) thought that water in the UK *could* potentially be contaminated with cysts (Giardia and crypto- something or other). Are you saying that I don't need to treat the water at all?
If I could be totally confident that I won't ingest anything nasty from untreated stream water anywhere in Dartmoor then I'd be happy to ditch all the filtering/purifying stuff, but I need to clarify if that's what you're saying please. I suppose I could boil everything, but that will use quite a lot of fuel I guess.

Ultimately you need to do what you're comfortable with. No one can say that 100% you'll not 'catch' anything from the water but the same could be said of drinking out of a domestic tap. I can say for me I've probably drunk 1000's of ltrs of 'untreated' water up on High Dartmoor and never had a problem with 'bad guts' but I might have been lucky. The Millbank bag is a good bit of kit and it looks really impressive on page 71 of Essential Bushcraft. I can say that in 20 years of spending time on Dartmoor camping and walking I never saw anyone using a Millbank bag to filter water up there at all.. The Millbank bag is designed to remove lots of big stuff from water twigs, insect larve, grit ( in much the same way a cotton handkerchief over the mouth of your water bottle would) if you're collecting water from a clear fast moving stream ( like a lot of the ones on Dartmoor) you might question needing it. If your collecting water from stagnet or slow moving water courses then that's a different matter. I can say the most I saw folk doing was chucking a puritab into their water bottle. Then honking afterward about the taste...

Bringing water up to a good rolling boil and letting it boil for 3 minutes will kill off all bugs your Primus Omnifuel will make short work of that. Once it's cooled you end up with safe nice tasting water... While it's hot you end up with Tea or soup.... You've got to use that 600mls of fuel doing something I guess...

You'll get a bit of Tannin in the water as it leaches out of the peat this seems to get worse after a dry period on the moor.

Have a good time up there where ever it is you end up getting to.

Cheers

John
 

springer5

Full Member
Mar 9, 2010
84
0
Carmarthen, Wales
OK JonBoy. Thanks for clarifying things for me. It sounds tome like the water should be "as safe as anything in life is likely to be", which is good enough for me.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

Hope to see you on the moor some day (and share a mug of "water" or two) :)
 

Tengu

Full Member
Jan 10, 2006
13,008
1,636
51
Wiltshire
I certainly dont have the fancy names. I cant afford them.

Aside from the famous hatchet, what custom kit did Nessmuk have?
 

jdlenton

Full Member
Dec 14, 2004
3,002
7
51
Northampton
I certainly dont have the fancy names. I cant afford them.

Aside from the famous hatchet, what custom kit did Nessmuk have?


A great deal of his kit was to his own design bu those where the days when things were made for you and didn't come off the peg
 

springer5

Full Member
Mar 9, 2010
84
0
Carmarthen, Wales
I certainly dont have the fancy names. I cant afford them.

I'm not particularly well off. My salary is below the national average. I think it probably just domes down what each of us has chosen to do with our limited income. Do you have....

Kids ?
Nice car ?
Holidays ?
Another half who likes housy stuff/clothes ?

etc, etc.

Nothing wrong with any of that at all, but they're all expensive things.

Mine goes on this instead of the above (not as well as).

People often use the phrase "can't afford" when what they sometimes mean is "chosen to spend it elsewhere and now there's none left over for this".

I could, having spent a lot of money on this stuff, now honestly say that I can't afford kids, or anything else (the money has gone !). It all depends on your chosen priorities.

There are exceptions of course, and you may be one of them, but I think generally speaking, if we're honest.....:rolleyes:
 
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rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
27
70
south wales
I'm not particularly well off. My salary is below the national average. I think it probably just domes down what each of us has chosen to do with our limited income. Do you have....

Kids ?
Nice car ?
Holidays ?
Another half who likes housy stuff/clothes ?

etc, etc.

Nothing wrong with any of that at all, but they're all expensive things.

Mine goes on this instead of the above (not as well as).

People often use the phrase "can't afford" when what they sometimes mean is "chosen to spend it elsewhere and now there's none left over for this".

I could, having spent a lot of money on this stuff, now honestly say that I can't afford kids, or anything else (the money has gone !). It all depends on your chosen priorities.

There are exceptions of course, and you may be one of them, but I think generally speaking, if we're honest.....:rolleyes:

A good reply Springer. Spend what you can afford and want to spend on any hobby. Some here think I'm a tight fisted bugger when in fact I'm not, and we earn above national average wages; I spend more on home PC equipment every year than 99% here spend on bushcraft equipment, but I use my PC's everyday and only camp maybe 25-30 nights a year so which is the better value? But, just make sure you get out and use your kit now or its a waste.
 

wentworth

Settler
Aug 16, 2004
573
3
40
Australia
28kg? I looked at your list and can't see where the weight it.

I have a week long walk coming up.

Equipment:6kg
Food (7 days) 7kg
Water (6L) 6kg
Total for 1 week:19kg.
That's for a week with 6L of water.

Where on earth is your extra 9kg!? Would it be possible to list a breakdown weight of each item?
 
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johnboy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 2, 2003
2,258
5
Hamilton NZ
www.facebook.com
28kg? I looked at your list and can't see where the weight it.

I have a week long walk coming up.

Equipment:6kg
Food (7 days) 7kg
Water (6L) 6kg
Total for 1 week:19kg.
That's for a week with 6L of water.

Where on earth is your extra 9kg!? Would it be possible to list a breakdown weight of each item?

If you look at some of the kit quoted then the 28kg starts to make sense...

( I google fu'd the weights)


Sabre 75 empty weight is approx 2.7 kg
Woodlore Osprey sleeping bag 2kg
DD Hammock 930g
GB SFA 1kg

So there is 6.63 kg for a start..... without stove cooking kit tarp clothing etc etc...

The kit weights I think are reasonable for what they are the Osprey is a 3 season synthetic bag. the Sabre 75 is built tough and has a lot of straps and pockets etc... None of the kit quoted has any pretence at being ultra light weight. It's just like a lot of kit a lot of us use.
 

Bravo4

Nomad
Apr 14, 2009
473
0
55
New Mexico, USA
A great deal of his kit was to his own design bu those where the days when things were made for you and didn't come off the peg

Excellent point. I enjoy Nessmuck and am amazed at just how relevant his writing is,
" I have found that nearly all who have a real love of nature and out-of-door camp-life, spend a good deal of time and talk in planning future trips, or discussing the trips and pleasures gone by, but still dear to memory."
Some things never change.:)

I wish Grandma Gatewood had written a book. That particular Grey Ghost helps keep me in line.

Hey Granny, what do you think about this here new widget or whatever?
"Pantywaist", she replies.
 

springer5

Full Member
Mar 9, 2010
84
0
Carmarthen, Wales
Hi Everyone

I'm off this morning to start my trip so this is the probably the last post I'll make for a few days - crap weather, but there we are, nothing to be done - goes with the territory of course.

Following some of your advice I chucked a load of stuff and now have my weight down to 18kg, or thereabouts.

I did actually take it all out and weigh every single item one by one, recorded it all in an Excel spreadsheet then "played" with what was included or not and watched the overall weight effect to try to get the best balance.

My only weakness was the hammock - I just couldn't do it. It had to stay. Sleeping in that, for me, is a major part of the "dream" of being out there. Don't know why, perhaps a psychiatrist could tell me, but it just IS. Like someone else here with there bottle of scotch. It's my one big luxury.
Forgot to mention that I do also have my dog with me, so there's her food as well.

Other than that I have tried to follow much of your advice and have lost 10kg from my pack as a result. So thanks again for a bit of common sense "hard" talking from some of you to get me back down to earth.

Now all I need is for this blasted rain to stop !!

Hope to catch up with everyone again in a few days. Wish me luck (I'll probably need it) :)

Cheers
 

Bushwhacker

Banned
Jun 26, 2008
3,882
8
Dorset
Get on out there and take it all with you and then make a note of what you use and what you don't use. You'll trim your kit down in no time to suit your personal preference.
 

Pierr

Forager
Sep 15, 2008
190
0
France
It is really hard to say where those kilos come from. You should post a FULL list of your gear with individual weight.
In summer 6 days can be done under 10kgs and a 30-40L bag, with 2L of water and food for the 6 days. Early spring, you need a few more warm layers but I don't see how you need to go beyong 12-13 kgs.
 

QDanT

Settler
Mar 16, 2006
933
5
Yorkshire England
with 2L of water for the 6 days.

from the .pdf on this World Health Org. link http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrequirements/en/
Total daily fluid requirements have been shown to range from
as little as 2 liters per day to 16 liters per day pending on the work load and the
level of heat stress
Adverse Consequences
Dehydration is the adverse consequence of inadequate water intake. The
symptoms of acute dehydration vary with the degree of water deficit (1). For
example, fluid loss at 1% of body weight impairs thermoregulation and, thirst
occurs at this level of dehydration. Thirst increases at 2%, with dry mouth
appearing at approximately 3%. Vague discomfort and loss of appetite appear
at 2%. The threshold for impaired exercise thermoregulation is 1% dehydration,
and at 4% decrements of 20-30% is seen in work capacity. Difficulty
concentrating, headache, and sleepiness are observed at 5%. Tingling and
numbness of extremities can be seen at 6%, and collapse can occur at around
7% dehydration. A 10% loss of body water through dehydration is lifethreatening
cheers Danny
 

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