Doing bushcraft without a tractor and trailer

[springer5]

Hi folks

I am very new to the whole subject of Bushcraft and I seem to be having what I'm guessing may be a common problem for us newbies.

Being the impulsive type, when I get into something I can't resist getting stuck in in a big way. So I bought myself some Ray Mears DVDs and have now read quite a few books on the subject, and surfed the web looking for more experienced advice on what kit is usually "needed" for Bushcraft (as opposed to just camping).

Here's what I 've got, based loosely on what a lot of the books/DVDs talk about using (without going into major details)...

- Rucksack (Karrimor Sabre 75 litre with PCLE pockets - total 100 Litre)
- Sleeping bag (Woodlore), tarp (Jacks R Better) and ground mat (thermarest)
- DD Travel Hammock
- Stove (Primus Omnifuel) with 600ml liquid fuel
- Gransfors Small Forest Axe (A bushcraft essential accoring to Raymondo)
- Small knife
- Map, compass, pocket GPS (my navigational skills are not that reliable yet !)
- Millbank bag, and steriliser
- Leatherman multitool
- Sharpening stone and axe file to keep my axe and knife sharp during (hopefully) intensive use on all that dead wood I'm hoping to find.
- Zebra Billy can packed with spork, fire steel, washing-up sponge
- 2 litres of water in a dromedary bag (about a day's worth)
- 1 change of socks, underwear, long-sleeve shirt
- 1 Fleece for those cold nights
- 1 lightweight waterproof coat (Rohan)
- 1 pr waterproof overtrousers for our great british weather
- Simple first-aid kit
- toothbrush & lightweight shaving kit
- Trowel for the necessaries (leave no trace and all that)
- Woolly hat and gloves

Food for 5 day trip...

5 evening meals...

- (mix of boil in bag rice and noodles)
- 5 Oat-so-simple sachets of porridge for breakfast
- chocoloate bars and biscuits for nibbles on the move during the day.
- 4 or 5 sachets of powdered soup.

By the time I've added that little lot (give or take a few other tiny bits and pieces) I have a backpack weighing a mighty 28KGs !!!! WAY too heavy to carry more than about 100 yards (for me anyway).

Can anyone advise me where I'm going wrong. I have looked at the above list over and over, but can't think of anything much I can take out of it, at least not without losing valuable bushcraft capability, but on the other hand, if I leave everything in, and keep that weight in the sack, I won't be going anywhere anyway. It's a lose-lose situation. I must be doing something wrong. I'd really appreciate an experienced pointer or two if possible.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Andy2112]

Are you just camping or walking or both ?

Folding saw can replace the SFA

Sharpening stone is not essential as long as your knife is sharp before you go.

Apart from that you have done a great kit list. Good on ya mate.

Thermarest, you may not need it, consider a cheap roll mat from Tesco's to start with.

Have a browse around the threads you may pick up some invaluable tips and most of all keep asking questions like this one, brilliant.

 

[nac mac feegle]

what are your evening meals other than rice or noodles
do you intend on hammoking or ground dwelling
how bigis your axe file and can you live with just the stone
how big is the stone can you halve it
and loose the shaving kit 5 days wont hurt

where abouts in wales are you n or s

 

[MrEd]

where abouts are you going 'bushcrafting' and are you going for a full on mission or just a few nights.

i would say go for one night first to work out what you need and dont need, when i first started (in the UK) i carried loads but have whittle it down somewhat. for instance i dont take an axe anymore cos i found that i could do most things with my knife, as i wasnt building shelters or gathering masses of firewoods. Also i tend to wear all my clothes, i take a hammock and sleep in that with a blanket and my clothes on, i dont bother with clean undercrakers if its just a night or two but i do take spare socks, i take a toothbrush but dont bother with shaving kit. dried food is also good. also ditch the trowel and just use a piece of stick instead to make a hole.

get a smaller sharpening stone (like a dc4) to save weight and space. Dont bother with the steriliser, just use the millbank bag then boil the water after filtering. try a smaller stove like a tatonka meths one aswell for weight and space saving. or get a honey stove or hobo stove so you can use wood and not have to carry have a KG of fuel with you

apparently the more you know the less you carry.

others may not agree with what i wrote but hey, some people swear by axes, but in the UK for a day or 2 i found it a bit overkill

 

[JonathanD]

Leave the trowel out too. You can make a digging stick with your knife. Think along those lines, and you'll soon weed out what you don't need. After your first trip, you'll also find some stuff that you didn't use and so leave it out the next time. It's a big evolutional learning curve that you never seem to reach the end of.

Mr Ed beat me to it. I also found that I could do most things with my knife, so very rarely carry an axe now.

 

[calibanzwei]

In addition to Andy's comments......

-ditch the trowel for any old 'digging stick'
-really need a thermarest/roll mat in a hammock? (ground dweller myself), probably not for 2-3 season travel I would have thought.
-leatherman on belt!

I'm usually out for three full days (walking) and the contents of my 55l highlander + response pack is fairly similar.
I have waterproof top layer (Arktis Stowaway), but no waterproof trousers - if I'm walking then the action of my legs eventually dries them out in showers; in case of heavy and prolonged downpour i'll rig the tarp up and wait it out - is all part of the fun!

 

[MrEd]

In addition to Andy's comments......

-ditch the trowel for any old 'digging stick'
-really need a thermarest/roll mat in a hammock? (ground dweller myself), probably not for 2-3 season travel I would have thought.
-leatherman on belt!

I'm usually out for three full days (walking) and the contents of my 55l highlander + response pack is fairly similar.
I have waterproof top layer (Arktis Stowaway), but no waterproof trousers - if I'm walking then the action of my legs eventually dries them out in showers; in case of heavy and prolonged downpour i'll rig the tarp up and wait it out - is all part of the fun!

yeaht ahts what i do and i wear a moderately water resistant outerlayer. then a fleece then a base layer, unless summer then just a shirt.

i dont use a sleeping bag in my hammock unless its chilly, i find for the summer i can get away with my clothes and an underblanket, if its a bit colder then add a blanket to that, anycolder and i use a sleeping bag but if its really cold i jsut sleep in my parka as im wearing it anyway lol

Mr Ed beat me to it. I also found that I could do most things with my knife, so very rarely carry an axe now.

yep agreed, folding saw and a knife a plenty for firewood in the UK, you will be surprised at the amount you can supply yourself with using these tools.

having said that you can always lean wood againts a tree and stomp on it lol to break it up, and you can batton quite large branches with a knife. i just collect dead wood from the floor

another thing to do would be to look at peoples trip reports or go to a meet and see what others are using. generally i i take something and havent used it for a few trips it gets left behind

 

[calibanzwei]

i dont use a sleeping bag in my hammock unless its chilly, i find for the summer i can get away with my clothes and an underblanket, if its a bit colder then add a blanket to that, anycolder and i use a sleeping bag but if its really cold i jsut sleep in my parka as im wearing it anyway lol

Probably get away with a fleecey sleeping bag insert as an alternative.

 

[MrEd]

Probably get away with a fleecey sleeping bag insert as an alternative.

yeah i have a vague idea to make a blanket sleeping bag for use in the hammock, although i may just get a poncho liner for when i need a bit more cover. having said that i have an old cotton mummy bag liner i might be able to line with fleec or something.....

hmm.......

 

[springer5]

Hi everyone

Thanks for all your replies. That was quick. Loads of really helpful responses. I really appreciate your advice.

In answer to some of your questions...

- Destination is Dartmoor (some nights in woodland - hence hammock, and some on the ground - hence thermarest). The woodland bit will probably be around Burrator reserviour, if I don't get caught and chucked out
- Duration is about 4 or 5 nights (depending on weather and "hardiness" - lol)
- The rice/Noodles b-in-bag are all pre-mixed (some with mushrooms, one with peas I think, and the noodles are curry flavoured, and one with egg). The noodls are really light, but the rices are a bit heavier. I would have like to have taken more interesting food, but I'm trying to get the weight down, not up even more.

Thanks for the idea about replacing the axe with a folding saw. I'll do that, and I'll dump (couldn't resist the pun) the trowel. Good idea about using a stick instead (much more like real bushcraft).

I also really like the idea about just tarping up and waiting out any heavy downpours, rather than trudging through at all costs.

Just really curious to know though, what are some of your typical pack weights on a similar type of trip ? It would help me to know if 28KG (or a bit less now if I use you ideas) is realistic. It still seems awful heavy, but then I'm a fat g!t and hopelessly unfit !!

 

[gregorach]

Why carry all that water? I (generally) never carry more that 1 litre at a time... Ditch the SFA, stone and file. I'd also be seriously asking myself whether I needed the Primus...

Having said that, I'm having trouble seeing how you end up at 28kg... I guess that doss bag must weigh a ton, and the pack itself can't be light...

 

[MrEd]

well i fit all my stuff in a 45l bag (for a couple of nights) with my tarp on the outside. dunno the weight but not that much.

as reagrds sleep sytems, just pick one so you dont have to carry loads more than you need.

for example you can bivvy on dartmoor and in the woods but you cant hammock in both ergo just use a bivvy bag imo

also is this going to be oyur first time out doing so called 'bushcrafting'? if it is i would suggest doing a couple of one nighters first to get used to your kit and to fine tune what you do use and dont need etc. also helps with the practice. its no fun putting up a tarp in lashing rain and wind if the only other time you have done it is in your back garden in the summer and you now cannot remember your knots!!!

dont mean to teach you to suck eggs......

 

[calibanzwei]

This is my usual 3 day menu:
Breakfast - scrambled egg, chorizo sausage and blackpudding on pitta bread (next trip I'll be changing to chapatis). Now thats a bushcraft breakfast!
Lunch - usually something light; those pouches of tuna on oatcakes (they usually don't break up too much) and dried fruit'n'nuts.
Main - like yourself, rice or noodles with somekind of b'in'bag main meal - Sharwoods have a good pototoe curry (need to figure out how to safely pack popadums!)

3l bladder of water.

All cooked in a SA Trangia.

I'll have to weigh it all next time I'm out - can't see it weighing more than your 100l bergen though. I'm 6'1", 16-17 stone - not the best of conditions, just plenty of GUSTO

 

[Shewie]

I'd ditch the Leatherman and small knife and replace them with a decent bigger blade for all round use. Maybe start with a simple Mora and then think about upgrading to a custom job later on. Not sure why folk carry Leathermans unless there's something mechanical to fix like a canoe seat or dog sled etc.

I agree about the sharpening stones, not really something you need unless your base camping for a long time. If you want something to keep your blade tidy on the trail have a look at the Fjallkniven DC4, nice bit of kit although usually a strop on the back of your belt will keep an edge in order.

Good to see a Millbank on your list, very handy. I'd probably ditch the steriliser and just use the MB and then boil your water up in your Zebra.

The rest of your kit sounds bob on though, just need to get out there now and enjoy it

Have fun and don't forget your camera

 

[gregorach]

Just really curious to know though, what are some of your typical pack weights on a similar type of trip ? It would help me to know if 28KG (or a bit less now if I use you ideas) is realistic. It still seems awful heavy, but then I'm a fat g!t and hopelessly unfit !!

I don't like carrying any more than about 15kg for any distance. But then I'm in a position to buy an ultralight down bag and expensive dehydrated rations.

I do carry a trowel though... I hate trying to dig a hole with a stick in a hurry. Maybe it's just me, but when I get up in the morning, the call of nature brooks no argument.

 

[MrEd]

I hate trying to dig a hole with a stick in a hurry. Maybe it's just me, but when I get up in the morning, the call of nature brooks no argument.

dig the hole the ight before lol

 

[calibanzwei]

Have fun and don't forget your camera

Hah, that'll be the straw that broke the camels back!

 

[william#]

first of all i would drop the ray mears stuff straight away - pointless most of it and some of his own products are too heavy un practicle too expencive

i known i was suprised too.

i have the sabres they are ok but tbh so many straps unless yu gaffer tape them down you will get whiped to hell in high winds

dvd yeh they are great for relaxing at home too and his production team seems to put great music tracks on them too (i loved the kruder and dorfmiester).

woodlore sleeping bag - centre zip great lots of room great - oh they fall appart pretty quick

zebras are very turable but weight a ton - great whjen yu have a film crew and porters to carry

leatherman looks cool had mine 3 yrs never used it

milbank bags yeh got a few of them un used in the box too honestly few place you go in the uk do you need to use milbank there is a tap of a clear running stream nearby boiling is fine for the real concerns

food well tbh ive found for just ease of use uk military rat packs are unbeatable just decanter the rubish out

i use to be able to carry 100 ltrs - go out for 5 days self suficient carrying all my own food just get water on the hoof but these days (as i get older) bidy just cant take that kinda punishment lighting fires is not only illegal in most places also draws attention to you if your trying to be discreet

pocket rockets wicked gadget - use whisper lite for longer periods as its cheaper - though white fuel is sky rocketing in price , you can use petrol with them which is very cheap but is very messy

ray mears hammock - extremely comfy loady of room - weights a ton oh and falls appart pretty quick. hennesey all the way if you want to actually move camp from time to time

oz hootchie - really neat bit of kit straps in the right place down side extremely too heavy also falls appart pretty quick

axes tbh unless im in a car no point granthons are very ellegent but you know you can pick up a nice hatchet down b&q for 15quid plastic handle is bomb proof and if it gets so bad you can just replace it 4 times for the same cost of one granthon

gps yup got one of those never needed to use the thing , cost me 400quid (now dropped to 120quid) works very bad too not at all in woodland. can see it usefull if i take eye off the ball in the mountatins ( i can just switch on and get a grid reference) o/s maps unbeatable and tbh in good weather with one of those i dont need a compass even in demanding country

the whole ray mears thing has been a bit of an illusion avoid it


rest of your kit looks pretty standard
best idea is to get out and you will soon see what works and what does not and what is usefull and what just is surplus

 

[Doc]

It sounds like a great outfit for a fixed camp, or if you are carrying it all in a canoe, but it's well over twice the weight of my 3 season outfit.

Omit the PLCE pouches - 75l should be enough

Omit the shaving kit. True, Calvin Rutstrum always shaved on the trail. In the TA I had to shave. Nowadays I just go beardy when camping.

Omit the leatherman and axe. Knife and folding saw is adequate in the UK.

Primus and Zebras are great if you're melting snow but there are lighter options. I use a military Trangia (works well as a stove or for cooking over a fire) but it's still around 1.3kg with fuel. In mountain country I use a titanium pot and Brasslite alcohol burner- maybe 500g with fuel.

Reduce water to 1L. It's Dartmoor, not the Kalahari. Makes use of sterilising tabs easier.

Omit Millbank bag. Never felt the need for one, and in Scotland the water is at least as peaty as Dartmoor.

Omit waterproof trousers. Wet legs won't kill you outside of winter, and if you have polycotton trousers (ideally waxed a bit) they won't be wet for long.

Sleeping bag: just now it won't get much below zero, and a suitable bag doesn't need to be over 1.4kg or so.

I know it's heresy, but consider a tent. you won't be reliant on trees. Plenty 1 man mountain tents weigh under 1.5kg, some go under 1kg.

Omit sharpening stone file and trowel

Omit spare baselayer if you're wearing merino - it doesn't smell, even after 4 days.

Your food options look good from weight point of view.

Hope this helps.

 

[Paul_B]

Filters like millbanks aren't really needed if you find a relatively clear stream. Peaty areas can be coloured with the peat but it is not to much for you to use. Besides a gritty texture to your water is not that bad anyway. Aquaventure (formerly Aquamira) is sufficient for the UK in most areas and wilder areas especially. Two bottles weigh very little. decant into very small dropper bottles can get from Boots empty I think or from BPL-UK or from eyedrop containers (empty first),

Sleeping bag - anything bought from a bushcraft type of outlet will be heavy. There is no way around that. Even Snugpak's best is heavy. A good down bag is from about 500g if you have the money. I have a 600g 3 season golite quilt from the sales at outdoorswarehouse.com for £100 (they are now £295 for the current model mine was the old version) In a Rab Survival Zone bivvy bag 230g with the mat its probably half the weight of your current bag if not less.I use a TAR full length. you could use a 3/4length and save weight. There are UL inflataable mats now that work for insulation as well. PeakOyl or TAR Neo. A Robens closed cell foam mat weighs 130g and should cope with all but the coldest weather double up it would cope with most of the year yet lighter than a TAR.

If you're backpacking mainly with some bushy stuff then no axe and you're taking too much. if you're doing mainly bushcraft with some moving around will you be moving far?

Personally I'd look at ground dwelling only if you're not in the woods all the time that way leave the hammock behind. It might be lightweight but a simple tarp and plastic sheet for ground (polycro is lightest but still durable) is lighter than tarp and hammock IMHO.

Billy cans I'd avoid unles they are titanium!

Seriously though if you're using a light hobo or wood gas stove a lighter pot is better. Honey stove is great as it folds flat and takes less room up in your sack, Your sack is too big. Seriously if you need even the base 75l you have the wrong / heavy stuff IMHO. Reduce the bulky items will also reduce the weight. Once you have less volume to fill a sack up then ditch the heavy, larger sack and go for say a 50l sack. It has been known for two mountain marathoners to carry a full two skin, two man tent and sleeping bags and safety gear and stove with pots and fuel for two/three days and spare to make a tea at the end (or they get disqual) yet fit that in a total volume between two of them of 30litres! I'm not saying go that low but if mainly backpacking with bushcraft activities (especially at the camp such as cooking on fires or making camp furniture tools etc (diggin stick) then I reckon a 50 litre is a reasonable target.

BTW when I'm only backpacking my tent (yes a 2 man tent) with a bivvy bag sleeping bag (my old 1.5kg one) stove, food for 5 days TAR full length, spare clothes for night only, waterproof jacket only and other stuff weighed on the bathroom scales in my current 50litre + 10litre sack came out at 8kg. Switching the tent for tarp I got to about 7ish kg. It will be a littlee heavier when fully packed out but that wwas a quick test for weight. If you add a few more bushcrafting items to that and some insect repellant / suntan / toiletries I will probably end up about 10kg. BTW for overnighters or short trips take a few tabs of sugar free chewing gum and no other toiletries! That's what someone once told me.