Do we have a responsibility or accountability? (discussion)

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Keith_Beef

Native
Sep 9, 2003
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Yvelines, north-west of Paris, France.
I have seen many cases of folk, bashing the living daylights out of a tree in the name of using an axe, and striking ferro rods with knife blades and spluttering through smoke while lighting a fire and many more things, all because they try to short-cut the intricate nuances that come with proper experience.
When you see someone doing something badly, maybe it's his first try. The first time I try something, it takes me longer than it should, and the result is not very good.

If somebody looking over my shoulder says "you're **** at that", it doesn't exactly encourage me to try again and get any better.

And saying "you're doing it wrong" doesn't help much either.

Much better is to ask "why do think that didn't work?" Encourage the student to think through why it didn't work, analyse the practise compared to the theory, and discover for himself what went wrong. This is what encourages proper self-evaluation and improvement.
 

Broch

Full Member
Jan 18, 2009
3,346
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Mid Wales
Come on, do you really think that the majority of the You-tubers have actually been on any formal training? - they've read one RM book, watched a few other videos, and are now experts. There are far too many Walter Mittie's in this whole subject area.
 

ChrisAsh

Member
Apr 19, 2019
26
6
Cheshire
When you see someone doing something badly, maybe it's his first try. The first time I try something, it takes me longer than it should, and the result is not very good. If somebody looking over my shoulder says "you're **** at that", it doesn't exactly encourage me to try again and get any better.
There would be a difference in having someone over your shoulder saying that you are ****, that would emply that there is someone with you, and if they were to criticise your attempt then they are not worth listening to, I have taken people out who have wanted to learn a few skills, and anybody who has any experience in my opinion would demonstrate, observe and correct.

When you are an outside viewer trying to correct what is wrong is very difficult. Try explaining in a written form how to apply enough pressure to a bearing block when using a bow-drill, or the angle needed to create sparks when using a flint and steel.

This is where the problem is when you feel that for the sake of safety something needs to be addressed.



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Janne

Guest
Feb 10, 2016
12,368
2,257
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
I have a feeling that people today like to get 'instant skills', as Broch says, they read one book, watch a couple of vids and think they master the subject.
In my days, we followed our dad, our granddad from the time we could walk.
Saw how they did it, were shown and corrected. Cut ourselves. Burned outselves. Then were told - I told you not to do it.

And we accepted that knowledge, sometimes after a bit of pain. . Today, in all walks of life, people are trained from early on to be overly critical and question established truths. They have a problem getting info, trust it and act accordingly.
This can cause aggression between teacher and pupil.
One of the worst 'teachers' and examples to follow I have seen is mr Grylls.
 
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ChrisAsh

Member
Apr 19, 2019
26
6
Cheshire
It just shows that we all have our own interpretation of bushcraft. Although at the core of the topic we all tend to learn the same skills, after that the divergent is completely different, some just focus on the core skills (shelter, fire, water), some more into the crafts.

It is easy for any of us to be critical of others, however we also need to ensure that we do not force our interpretation of bushcraft onto others where it doesn't fit.



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Janne

Guest
Feb 10, 2016
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Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
I think this thread is more about unsuitable (read - dangerous) practices?

Bushcraft as such is a hugely wide area, from a stationary camp with scrounged or handmade furniture to the trekking with a backpack, or fishing, or hunting, or collecting vegetabilia.

Being outside our normal everyday homes.
 

ChrisAsh

Member
Apr 19, 2019
26
6
Cheshire
I think this thread is more about unsuitable (read - dangerous) practices?

Bushcraft as such is a hugely wide area, from a stationary camp with scrounged or handmade furniture to the trekking with a backpack, or fishing, or hunting, or collecting vegetabilia.

Being outside our normal everyday homes.
You are correct, and we all have an option of what should be done. My hope is that those who make videos and uploaded them, have a think about their own practice, and how they show the skills in the future.

I was just trying to consolidate what others had said, for some bushcraft is reading a book/attending a course over a day or two, for others it is years of experience and mistakes.

I created this thread in the hope of getting people to think about their own practice (especially those who produce content on media platforms) and the potential implications of their actions.

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Woody girl

Full Member
Mar 31, 2018
2,669
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Exmoor
I feel that we have become a scared society. There seem to he too many rules designed to protect me.. at least that is the reason (excuse to control ? ). It annoys me a great deal to have someone half my age telling me I have to do things in a certain way or I'm not supposed or able to do something because that is what is expected of me. I do my own thing and am vocal if people try to control me. I've become the woman in the poem.. I forget it now.. but I'll wear a purple coat with red shoes and run my walking stick along the railings splash in puddles in bare feet and kick neat piles of leaves..... figuratively speaking. :) one life.. live it!
 

ChrisAsh

Member
Apr 19, 2019
26
6
Cheshire
It is true that society has become scared, it shouldn't be the case, but unfortunately it is. It could be argued that a video (regardless of platform) is seen as an educational resource. As there are a multiple methods of learning (Visual, Auditory, Reading/Writing, and Kinesthetic). A result of this creates the problem of the potential of litigation.

After all the UK seems to want to be more like its cousins over the pond and bring law proceedings into everything. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/1390030.stm (old but gets to the point)

So yes we do have a responsibility and an accountability. Should we be in this position where we need to think about all our actions.... Hell No. Unfortunately society has the different idea.

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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,550
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Florida
.......After all the UK seems to want to be more like its cousins over the pond and bring law proceedings into everything. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/1390030.stm .......
Let me start by saying I agree with you. When I started reading the article the first few sentences had me thinking they were suing the doctors but soon it was apparent they were using the x-rays to sue others. Suing the doctors will come though.
 

Janne

Guest
Feb 10, 2016
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Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
Suing doctors and dentists in UK is on an upward steep spiral, specially dentists.
Accelerated when a dentist trained as a lawyer ( or other way ) started a business with the only business model - suing dentists.
 

ChrisAsh

Member
Apr 19, 2019
26
6
Cheshire
Let me start by saying I agree with you. When I started reading the article the first few sentences had me thinking they were suing the doctors but soon it was apparent they were using the x-rays to sue others. Suing the doctors will come though.
Suing the doctors and other health care providers has already started. Almost everyday there is an advert asking "Have you been the victim of a medical mistake"

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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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Florida
Suing the doctors and other health care providers has already started. Almost everyday there is an advert asking "Have you been the victim of a medical mistake"

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Granted the ads have been going on quite a while here now. However I’m old enough to remember when attorneys didn’t advertise at all. It was considered unprofessional.
 

Janne

Guest
Feb 10, 2016
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Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
The result is that preffered treatments are the ones which are easy and have less risk for complications, not the best ones.

Plus, indemnity insurance fees go up sharply.

Has anybody posting a vid online been sued?
 

ChrisAsh

Member
Apr 19, 2019
26
6
Cheshire
The result is that preffered treatments are the ones which are easy and have less risk for complications, not the best ones.

Plus, indemnity insurance fees go up sharply.

Has anybody posting a vid online been sued?
I have been unable to find any reference to a lawsuit being made against a social media platform based source of information, however

https://www.thetechedvocate.org/youtube-valuable-educational-tool-not-just-cat-videos/

This has the potential of reinforcing my opinion, and that it is just a matter of time before the potential of such a legal matter is brought into effect.

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Billy-o

Native
Apr 19, 2018
1,131
436
Canada
Ahh.... debates.....

Live and let live.
Very much, and you don't want to forget to defend our unalienable freedom to talk nonsense, make things up and pretend we know more than we do ... or indeed our habit of thinking we know better than others. We don't have a responsibility to be responsible, only a responsibility to call BS when we see it, and that is the responsibility one shouldn't hesitate to fulfill ... whether through earnest re-education or by open mockery
 
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