I recently read that scottish dirks were used as bush (mountain?)craft knives as well as weapons. which got me thinking about traditional knives. Besides dirks and seax (plural spelling??) Are there any traditional knife designs from Britain england, france etc i'm talking about field knives not agricultural tools or weapons, the kind of things people would use in their daily outdoor lives for the things we use our knives for.
dirks
- Thread starter jerv
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As far as I know, what we currently think of as a dirk is not a traditional knife at all. Traditional highland dress and weapons were banned and severely persecuted following the 1745 uprising, and then completely re-invented for royal amusement in the court of Queen Victoria, nearly a hundred years later.
The traditional dirk is a longer knife, developed from the Ballock dagger. There's an interesting description of it's development, with some nice examples, here. We know how it would have been used as a weapon, but I'm not sure that we know that much about it's day-to-day use - it's an area of history that has unfortunately been largely overlooked until recently.
One use that I do know of was to provide the traditional travelling rations. Highlanders would typically carry oatmeal, and supplement it by adding blood taken from cattle to make a kind of blood pudding. They wouldn't kill the cattle (as they were often either transporting them for sale or stealing them), but just let blood from the area around the top of the back leg.
Toddy and Wayland are good on this sort of stuff, hopefully they'll have more...
The traditional dirk is a longer knife, developed from the Ballock dagger. There's an interesting description of it's development, with some nice examples, here. We know how it would have been used as a weapon, but I'm not sure that we know that much about it's day-to-day use - it's an area of history that has unfortunately been largely overlooked until recently.
One use that I do know of was to provide the traditional travelling rations. Highlanders would typically carry oatmeal, and supplement it by adding blood taken from cattle to make a kind of blood pudding. They wouldn't kill the cattle (as they were often either transporting them for sale or stealing them), but just let blood from the area around the top of the back leg.
Toddy and Wayland are good on this sort of stuff, hopefully they'll have more...
I'm sure I saw an English Dirk somewhere on the net once.....or was it a Northumberland Dirk? Can't remember now, but this post jogged my memory a bit. I'll see if I can find it again and post back if I do.
Depends where you buy them,
http://www.armourclass.co.uk/Data/Pages/Scottish Collection2.htm
These lads make *the* best swords and dirks.... they aren't cheap....but it's what I bought my sons
The little sgian dubh is a classic small hand knife, mostly used for food. The dirk was usually held in the hand that held the targe, it's used as a kind of, "batter with the targe and slice with the dirk", action while the claymore is in the other hand ready to take the other guys head off or shear into the midribs or guts. Some of the targes had a spike inserted into the central boss, so effectively you would end up fighting a man with three knives to hand Until the advent of rapid firing rifles and the strict disciplined drill of the British army that made them so effective, the Highlanders were a real force to be reckoned with. Not daft the British army though, they just got them to sign up
Cheers,
Toddy
I've just read through the link on a previous post and have to say I've watched re-enactors (okay, and others ) fighting with targe, dirk and claymore, and the dirk is used, it's not just being held there to be handy. A skilled man uses both sword and shield arm in a battle.
I believe that like the Masai still do, the Scots took blood from the neck of the cattle too.
Talking about other knives though, the hand held heuk or billhook or sickle must surely rate as useful traditional tools too, agricultural or not. Bushcrafters take saws and axes to use in woodlands, these older tools are every bit as effective. When fastened onto saplings they became pole arms and that's a whole other ball game of battles, shiltroms, etc.,
Cheers,
Toddy
http://www.armourclass.co.uk/Data/Pages/Scottish Collection2.htm
These lads make *the* best swords and dirks.... they aren't cheap....but it's what I bought my sons
The little sgian dubh is a classic small hand knife, mostly used for food.
The dirk was usually held in the hand that held the targe, it's used as a kind of, "batter with the targe and slice with the dirk", action while the claymore is in the other hand ready to take the other guys head off or shear into the midribs or guts. Some of the targes had a spike inserted into the central boss, so effectively you would end up fighting a man with three knives to hand Until the advent of rapid firing rifles and the strict disciplined drill of the British army that made them so effective, the Highlanders were a real force to be reckoned with. Not daft the British army though, they just got them to sign up Cheers,
Toddy
I've just read through the link on a previous post and have to say I've watched re-enactors (okay, and others
) fighting with targe, dirk and claymore, and the dirk is used, it's not just being held there to be handy. A skilled man uses both sword and shield arm in a battle.I believe that like the Masai still do, the Scots took blood from the neck of the cattle too.
Talking about other knives though, the hand held heuk or billhook or sickle must surely rate as useful traditional tools too, agricultural or not. Bushcrafters take saws and axes to use in woodlands, these older tools are every bit as effective. When fastened onto saplings they became pole arms and that's a whole other ball game of battles, shiltroms, etc.,
Cheers,
Toddy
Or rained arrows and artillery fire from a safe distance...
Yeah, well that's historians for you - "I can't imagine how a man could fight with a dirk in his targe hand, so it can't be", from someone who's never held a sword in his life. Looks like a darned effective close-quarters combination to me...
Yep, for my money the billhook seems like a much more practical field tool.
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