Did Some Work On My Western W49 Bowie

mrostov

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Jan 2, 2006
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I did a bit of work on the handle and handguard of my Western W49 Bowie. This bowie is the same pattern knife that Robert Redford carried in the movie, "Jeremiah Johnson". This pattern was also made in quantity during WWII and issued to aircrews and troops in the Pacific and the jungles of Asia as a survival and bush knife. The length of the blade from tip to handguard is 9".

It's one of the older carbon blade knives made before Western got run into the ground by Coleman, and Camillus took over the brand name and started making the knives out of 420HC stainless. This blade is 0170-6C steel, the same stuff they make the Beckers out of and the same stuff Cold Steel's 'Carbon-V' is suspected of being. The older carbon blade Western knives are extremely tough blades and they take and hold a razor edge.

Myself I liked the knife and it's become one of my favorite knives for serious use in the bush. However, I wanted to make it more tuned to what I wanted in the knife and better suited to a wide variety of bushcraft activities in addition to hunting. I added finger grooves in the full tang handle (the grips on this knife are made of rosewood). I cut and re-shaped the handguard. The lanyard hole is lined with 1/4" brass tubing. I usually like to line my lanyard holes with brass, if at all possible, when they go through wood.

My thanks to Scott at Razorback Knives for sending me a couple of pics of a Western W49 he did some good work on a while back. We were on a similar train of thought on the handguard.

Here's a couple of quick pictures I took of the knife.

RostovW49bowie1.jpg

RostovW49bowie2.jpg
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
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My dad has one of those, it has some bite on it!! It has always been razor sharp, the thing could split the atom!! I think they are some good mods you have made there, are you keeping the sheath as it is or are you gonna get a custom job made for it? I'm sure I saw a custom sheath for this knife over on BB a while back, but I'm not sure.
 

mrostov

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Jan 2, 2006
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I'm in the process of making a new sheath for it. The original sheath wasn't so good.

I have a couple of different Western knives. One that I use for bushcraft and hunting a lot is my little rosewood handled Western W66 which has a 4-3/8" blade, also of 0170-6C. It complements the bowie or a hatchet pretty well.

w66.jpg
 

mrostov

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I like the work that guy does with sheaths.

The new sheath I'm building for the bowie is also a scabbard and frog arrangement. I have the scabbard mostly done, I still need to make the frog.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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I love that mod. I own a Puma bowie that I own becuase it "talked to me". Sadly its going to go in the next clear out round (just got rid of my Chris Reeves). I just can't keep owning things I don't use or need. But that IS a beautiful job. Its nice piece of cultural heritage too. US guys should carry bowies....anyone got a spare coonskin cap :) (that isn't intended to be rude, you guys have the best fun)

Red
 

mrostov

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Jan 2, 2006
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British Red said:
US guys should carry bowies....anyone got a spare coonskin cap :)

Red

:D Red, actually mine is deerskin and rabbit fur. :D

I used to get 'eskimo' wisecracks from friends I'd go hunting, fishing, and backpacking with about my trapper hat I'd wear in cold weather. Then I gave a few out for Christmas one time and the wisecracks stopped because now you'd have to kill these guys to get their rabbit fur trapper hats away from them.

Stuart said:
what do you use this sword for?

Well, North America has a lot of wide open country, some of it extremely rugged, wild, and remote. There are many places where you might as well be on the surface of the moon for all of the help you can get from the outside world. When you are standing there, right at the intersection of 'no' and 'where', and you can't just hop into a vehicle and drive to a nice, warm motel, suddenly that 'big' knife starts looking smaller, and smaller, and suddenly it doesn't look so oversize anymore.

In many of the wilder parts of this continent, Mother Nature can kill you if you are not careful, sometimes with surprising speed and efficiency, so you need all of the extra edge you can get. Generally, the further north you go in the US or Canada, in the bush you tend to see more and more knives with blades in the 9" range in everyone's hands. With people who hunt a lot, like the Inuit, even the ulu's get big, with curved, semi-circular blades as much as 6" wide.

For example, if a blizzard is coming and it's coming in fast, and it would take you a day or two on foot, or more, to get out of the area, you need to make a very good shelter very fast. That 9" blade is suddenly the difference between life and death. Yeah, you can built a shelter against serious weather with a 4" knife - eventually.

A knife like that also will split and chop wood at a level which a 4" knife cannot approach. There's just only so much you can do with batoning a 4" blade, and if you have to baton a 9" bowie, you can split some serious wood. For cutting pine boughs for shelter and bedding, a 9" bowie cannot be matched by either a hatchet or a 4" knife as it acts like a mini-machete.

Bushcraft skills excel with a 9" knife. You can make walking sticks, digging sticks, shelters, etc, at a speed and conservation of energy and effort that you cannot match with a smaller knife.

In the American west, in many places there are cacti and other vegetation that are extremely useful, often edible, but have serious spines, needles, thorns, barbs, etc. You cannot use a 4" knife on that stuff. You need to maintain your distance while working with them or you can seriously injure your knife hand. The smallest knife I'd use on cactus in the Southwest is a 6" Rapala filet knife, and even then I still carry a bowie, a khukuri, or an 18" machete.

A big bowie like that isn't that big once you get used to it. Many of you probably have butcher knives in your kitchen with blades just as long. Especially when you choke up on the blade, you can get some fairly fine work done with such a knife, often with surprising speed.

Often a big knife like that is used as a butcher knife, especially if you have to take apart an elk or a moose. Even smaller animals, like mule deer, are not that small. I view rabbits as being what you eat when you are really hungry and you can't get real food. If you can nail one in the dead of winter, when there is snow on the ground, they are often fairly parasite free, but rodents out here carry more diseases than a Calcutta whorehouse.

I'll usually have a smaller knife with me when I'm packing a bigger blade like my bowie, often a lockback folder like a Buck 110, or more lately my Kabar Mule. However, a small fixed blade is easier to clean when you have critter gunk all over them, and so I have a few smaller fixed blades that I'm rather fond of, mostly designs made by Buck or Western.

A small knife is handy for the initial critical cuts, like cutting around the anus, removing the gonads, and slicing open the gut. Some people I know carry a retractable, box cutter style razor blade knife for this part of dressing out game. However, for taking the animal apart, a 9" knife can make things a lot easier, faster, and lots more efficient. But, if you have to, you can do it all with that 9" bowie, just like you could do it with a 9" butcher knife.

If you are truly living off the land, you want to kill bigger critters anyway, because it is a lot more efficient for energy expended while hunting and it is a lot more efficient use of your ammunition. One .308 or .30-30 cartridge expended into an elk or a mule deer is a more efficient use of ammo, gram for gram, and for your body calories expended during the hunt than shooting some mangy rabbit with a .22 long rifle caliber weapon. Also, bigger critters have fat on them that smaller animals like rabbits often don't have. Men have died of 'rabbit starvation' in the winter because they had no fat in their diet, even though they had plenty of rabbits to eat. To try and truly survive off of rabbits, nutritionally you have to eat pretty much everything but the feces, fur, and bones.

A big knife like this is also a good weapon itself for hunting, especially if lashed to the end of a pole as a spear (stabbing type, a lance, not a throwing spear). In some places like the Southwest, one of the better animals for a food source is the javelina, a pig-like animal that travels in groups and can be 5 shades of mean. They are, however, quite tasty and not too difficult to spear if you really want one, have some serious balls, and are a skilled hunter.

The 19th Century American mountain men often said that they could tell right off a greenhorn to the American west by his knives. Either his main knife was too small, or he was packing too few knives. Those guys often had at least three three blades on them, not counting stashed in their gear - big knife (used as both a tool and a sidearm), often 9" - 10", often a medium knife of a skinner style usually about 5" - 6", a smaller patch knife of generally about 3", and often a hatchet or a tomahawk.

What I think blows by a lot of people without their realizing the significance of it is that many of the bushcraft legends, like Kephart and Nessmuk, tended to have done most of their bushcraft forays in the American east.

In days gone by, travelers into the American west found out quickly that not long after you crossed the Mississippi and Missouri rivers you started to enter a different world than the American east. The knives got bigger, rifles for hunting went from .36 to .50 and .54 calibers, and 1/3 of the mountain men didn't survive their first 24 months on the frontier.

In modern days, many even here in America forget this, but once you are on the ground and back to the primitive, the old realities hit home and you start to understand fast why our ancestors did many of the things they did, and used many of the tools that they did.

Now, some at this point are saying, "I have an axe." Cool, I try and pack one along too, even if it's just a hatchet, and I also take my axes seriously, putting a fair amount of care and effort into them. For serious, long term living in the American wilderness, having both a big knife and an axe is a major plus.

There is a story I read once about the travels of a guy named Deep River Jim, who lived in the era of Grey Owl and others, and he wrote books about it later in life. He was going down a remote river one day and he saw rapids ahead and he figured, due to circumstances, that he couldn't avoid them in time. He immediately threw his axe onto the bank from the canoe and then rode the canoe to it's destruction, losing most of his gear. He swam to shore, without much but a jackknife and a waterproof matchcase in his pockets. He backtracked up to his axe and then, with the axe, he proceeded to build shelter, collect food (porcupine), make a fire, and began planning for his walk out.

But, what if he hadn't quickly tossed his axe ashore? One of the advantages of a larger knife that you have on you is that it's always on you, and relatively quick to both deploy and re-sheath. You can say the same thing about a hatchet also, like my 3" bit Hudson Bay style Norlund hatchet I often carry around. I have it ground and sharpened that it's as much an ulu knife as it is a hatchet and I often use it in such a manner, like it was an ulu knife.

There's advantages to both a big knife and a hatchet, and I like both. However, I consider either a properly rigged hatchet or a big knife to be the proper primary tool for the bush, not the 4" knife, which I look upon as an auxiliary tool, much like a traditional style jackknife.

I've almost always had handy a bigger knife or a hatchet on me when I've been in the bush, and I always have directly on me, even when I'm not in the bush, my Leatherman and before that, my Swiss Army knife, and both have good 2.5" to 3" blades and good wood saws.

Because of this, very, very seldom have I had to baton with a small blade, hence why most of the time the smaller, 4" variety auxiliary knife I carry is a 3-3/4" lockback folder, like a Buck 110 or a Kabar Mule. It's primary purpose is as a very sharp, small knife that is very compact and carries easily. It is not a maul for splitting firewood. If I have to, I know that the Kabar Mule is tough enough to baton with, but I prefer not to even try it with the Buck 110 unless I really, really have to.

My multitool is always on me, even when I'm not in the bush, and it has a nicely shaped, extremely sharp, 3" locking blade made of 154CM and in it's pouch is a magnesium firetool, a flat DMT fine grit mini-hone, and an EZE-Lap tapered rod diamond sharpener for the 420HC serrated sheepsfoot blade. If I have to, and circumstances were such, I could get by with just my multitool and a serious primary bush tool such as a hatchet, axe, or a bowie, and get by quite well in the bush, forgoing the small, dedicated 4" style auxiliary knife altogether.
 
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British Red

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Makes a lot of sense to me - in fact a well presented write up (although, I'll leave the "pig sticking" to others :)). No different to using a Bill Hook or a large knife for butchery I guess.

An interesting read that Mrostov - thank you

Red
 

Stuart

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Sep 12, 2003
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I have to say that I personally disagree with a great deal of your post, but each to his own, if it makes you happy it cant be all bad.
It is worth clarifying however that I did not refer to this blade as a 'sword' solely due to its length as you appear to have assumed.

I have a leuku and a parang which I employ in their respective environments, both of which are longer and neither of which I would refer to as a sword.
Its the combination of the guard, finger grooves, deep belly and clipped point which evokes an impression of a cutlass rather than a woodsmans tool.

Even in the jungle where large blades are practical I would respectfully suggest that this design would be a very poor choice.

The argument that this sort of blade is a requirement in ‘Harsh’ conditions seems a poor one. I have been lucky enough to have travelled in wilderness areas all over the world with native peoples who live in the harshest of conditions and never amongst any of these peoples in any environment from the deserts of the middle east and the jungles of southeast Asia to the tundra of northern Europe and the Bush-lands of Africa have I encountered a native group who showed any inclination towards this design.

The closest I have found is the Hmong people of northern Thailand, whose design is a short stout machete with a clipped point, but even here we have to bear in mind that these people are static farmers and not forest dwellers

I personally would be unable to take you seriously in any environment with that hanging from you belt, but if your cutlass makes you happy then why should you care what I or anyone else thinks.

With regards to the rest of the wisdom in you post, this comment certainly raised my eyebrows.

A big knife like this is also a good weapon itself for hunting, especially if lashed to the end of a pole as a spear (stabbing type, a lance, not a throwing spear). In some places like the Southwest, one of the better animals for a food source is the javelina, a pig-like animal that travels in groups and can be 5 shades of mean. They are, however, quite tasty and not too difficult to spear if you really want one, have some serious balls, and are a skilled hunter.

I would have thought that running around the bush with a big knife strapped to a pole in an attempt to kill a pig (without the aid of a pack of trained hunting dogs) would serves no purpose outside fantasy land other than perhaps as a source of great amusement to anyone watching you.

I must thank you for your information about rabbit poisoning however, I am enlightened!

(you) could tell right off a greenhorn to the American west by his knives

You probably can
 

Shinken

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Nov 4, 2005
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Each to there own mate!

I dont see the problem with using your knife to make a spear though, personally i would use it to sharpen the stick though. If my knife was my life i wouldnt want to be damaging it or losing it. If you stick your spear into a pig and the knife comes away from the wood and the pig legs it along with your knife you'd be screwed :lmao:

Alright thats a bit far fetched but hey,

If i had nothing else id be happy with a bowie!
 

British Red

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Shinken said:
Each to there own mate!

Yup!

I quite like hearing about different kit and different peoples uses for it. I might not choose to use it, but I'm always happy to hear why people like what they like. Sometimes I'll take another look at it from there. I have a friend who swears by Khukri and a SAK. I like an axe and fixed blade knife. Sometimes my tools are better (splitting lots of wood for example). Sometimes his are better (cutting thatch and sharpening stakes). Short of carrying a whole tool box, its always going to be a compromise I guess. I'm going to learn to use a Bill Hook properly this year. Why? Well why not? I've heard lots of good things about them and have messed about with a couple - I can surely see their place in hedge laying - don't know about Bushcraft, but time will tell.

Vive la differance!

Red
 

mrostov

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Stuart said:
I would have thought that running around the bush with a big knife strapped to a pole in an attempt to kill a pig (without the aid of a pack of trained hunting dogs) would serves no purpose outside fantasy land other than perhaps as a source of great amusement to anyone watching you.

Javelinas are not a pig, they are a peccary, the only pig-like animal actually native to North America. they are kind of a distant cousin to a pig. All of the wild hogs in this country are actually imported domesticated animals that got loose long ago and became feral.

Getting close to a javelina is not hard, especially if you are upwind. A lot of people just stumble into them. They don't have a lot of fear it seems. Spearing one is not that difficult. The biggest problem is that they are mean as hell and they travel in packs, like wolves.

I've speared one before, and I've know a few others that have speared them. You kill enough of them, and after a while it's like, "How have I NOT hunted one yet?" Mainly I just use a gun, it's a lot safer, like I said, Javelinas are mean. With a .308 you can just sit uphil, just below the ridgeline, and nail them as the pack wanders down a gully. Lots of people shoot them with a bow and arrow. I've also killed one with a .22LR caliber Ruger MkII pistol before.

Stuart said:
I personally would be unable to take you seriously in any environment with that hanging from you belt, but if your cutlass makes you happy then why should you care what I or anyone else thinks.

Ever been hunting in places like Alaska or Montana? You don't even have to go to Montana, there's lot of big deer and elk in Arizona. That knife looks big in the pictures but it's only 9". The blade is a bit wide, so that makes it look big.

Ever hear of a Cold Steel Tailmaster? It's one of the popular knives for hunting guides in Alaska, and it's 9" long also. The Fallkniven Thor has a 10" blade and I know several people that swear by it (kind of pricey).

A lot of these 3rd world natives carry parangs and machetes, which are even longer. Machetes are simple and cheap to make and don't require the best steel. A lot of 3rd world natives are also very agriculture oriented in their outdoor activities, and so a cheap machete is what they need and it's easy for them to get.

Countries like Nepal, their khukuris are more bowie than machete. They are thick steel that has been professionally forged, and many of them are far bigger than that bowie knife I have. I've also got several khukuris.

But, I think that you'll find with a lot of bushcraft oriented people in North America will tend to carry a longer knife than what you folks in the UK seem to prefer, with the most popular lengths being from 7" to 9". For example, it seems that over there, you tend to view that 7" Lapp knife as 'large', but the USMC Kabar style fighting knife is common as dirt here and it's considered something of a regular knife.

I think what one difference is that we may be seeing here is that woodlore/bushcraft type activities in much of North America tends to be very hunting oriented, and some of the critters here are a tad big. Deer season in much of the US is approached with an almost religious reverence. In Texas alone there are over 1 million deer. From what I've seen, that doesn't so much seem to be the case in the UK.
 

Shinken

Native
Nov 4, 2005
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Countries like Nepal, their khukuris are more bowie than machete. They are thick steel that has been professionally forged, and many of them are far bigger than that bowie knife I have. I've also got several khukuris.

I think stuart wasnt refereing to the size but the upswept clip point (which is crap at drilling) the big guard (which just gets in the way and imho has no use) and the finger grooves ( which make carving with a chestleaver grip painfull )

All of these characteristics make a bowie difficuilt to bushcraft with (imho) A leuku for instance can be the same length and do all the big jobs the bowie would do but withought any if the negatives (again imho)
 

mrostov

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Jan 2, 2006
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Shinken said:
I think stuart wasnt refereing to the size but the upswept clip point (which is crap at drilling) the big guard (which just gets in the way and imho has no use) and the finger grooves ( which make carving with a chestleaver grip painfull )

All of these characteristics make a bowie difficuilt to bushcraft with (imho) A leuku for instance can be the same length and do all the big jobs the bowie would do but withought any if the negatives (again imho)

From my perspective, the leuku doesn't have a handguard, and that bothers me. Blood is about as slippery as motor oil, and if you're out in the bush, the last thing you want to do is cut yourself badly while butchering an animal. The fingergrooves also help you maintain a grip in cold, wet, slippery conditions. That is more a personal choice than anything else.

That's why I left a fingerguard on that knife. the original guard was the old 19th Century style when bowie knives were used as much as a sidearm as they were a bush tool. A number of US troops packed this same model in Vietnam, and this same pattern was issued to many US aircrews and troops fighting in the jungle in WWII.

I've never had a problem with drilling with it, when I needed to, I like it better than my old Trailmaster, but one thing I did mention earlier is that I almost always also have a smaller knife with me, at the very least my multitool.

One knife just doesn't do everything well. Like most tools, their design and size dictates that somethings they do better than others. A lot of your knife requirements are dictated by your needs also.
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
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I personally wouldn't use a knife like that for a chest lever grip, it is a chopper of wood, not really for intricate fine work. I think they do have a place in the correct type of bushcraft, and it is all down to personal preference. My dad said that he couldn't make feathersticks with his as it was so huge.

If I was to carry this knife, I would carry a smaller blade for intricate work and carving wood.
 

Stuart

Full Member
Sep 12, 2003
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**********************
Shinken said:
I think stuart wasnt refereing to the size but the upswept clip point (which is crap at drilling) the big guard (which just gets in the way and imho has no use) and the finger grooves ( which make carving with a chestleaver grip painfull )

All of these characteristics make a bowie difficuilt to bushcraft with (imho) A leuku for instance can be the same length and do all the big jobs the bowie would do but withought any if the negatives (again imho)

Shinken is correct, was not referring to the length of the blade but the features of the Knife.

Perhaps I am coming across a little too harshly here, use what you like in the end its what you can accomplish with it that’s important, regardless of what style of tool you choose to use.

The only thing I would take any real issue with is the implication that a knife like this is a necessity in 'harsh' environments, which I think is grossly incorrect.

If this was the case how did the Native Americans live in such environments before the white man and his big Bowie came along?
 

mrostov

Nomad
Jan 2, 2006
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spamel said:
I personally wouldn't use a knife like that for a chest lever grip, it is a chopper of wood, not really for intricate fine work. I think they do have a place in the correct type of bushcraft, and it is all down to personal preference. My dad said that he couldn't make feathersticks with his as it was so huge.

If I was to carry this knife, I would carry a smaller blade for intricate work and carving wood.

Yes, precisely. Almost every one I know that carries a big Bowie style knife in the field also has a smaller knife and/or a multitool with them.

Myself, nowadays my standard, go anywhere package is a Kabar Mule and Leatherman Charge Ti. From that point, I can chose another tool, like the bowie, a machete, a hatchet, etc.
 

mrostov

Nomad
Jan 2, 2006
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Texas
Stuart said:
The only thing I would take any real issue with is the implication that a knife like this is a necessity in 'harsh' environments, which I think is grossly incorrect.

I think that you might have misunderstood what I said. It isn't absolutely necessary, but it is very convenient and it gets many jobs done a lot faster with less effort, saving both energy and time.

Stuart said:
If this was the case how did the Native Americans live in such environments before the white man and his big Bowie came along?

Well, basically, they lived short, harsh lives and they died young.

What you look at is what did the Indians want first in their trade with the White man? This was basically guns, steel knives, steel axe/hatchets, woven wool blankets, and iron cooking pots. Those simple, manufactured items completely transformed Indian life as much as the horse did, which they also didn't have before the White man showed up.

It's interesting to note that when Lewis & Clark explored the new Louisiana Purchase for the US government, when they encountered the Nez Perce, many Nez Perce had never seen a White man before, but they had already acquired guns for every man through trade with other Indians.
 

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