Device integration - are devices that merge any good?

[Tony]

I think that some of us will find a balance of tech and outdoor experience, some will proudly declare their independence from tech and others will be out in the wilderness but not see any of it because of their tech (other than when putting photo's up on Instagram). I think there're some amazing advancements in tech, advancements that can enhance our experiences, save lives and maybe even help save some nature which would be a wonderful thing. We just need to be considered in our approach to it, prudent in its use and integration into our lives. People falling off of cliffs trying to get the perfect selfie is maybe not the prudent application of tech...

We need to look for that which truly enhances our lives, tech companies tell us what that is, but it's motivated by the need to create markets and sell products. I think that inside us all there's a measure we can use, we just have to find it and find the balance or the tech will take over and we'll miss the experience of being alive with all its lows and highs, it's hard edge and its miracles. Tech is a double edged sword for me and I aim for keeping it to a minimum.

 

[Paul_B]

Non-tech is another double edged sword. Ppl going out with very little without the skill to cope when perhaps a little tech could have helped.

It's a balancing act IMHO. Skill, knowledge and kit can all play a part. Tech comes under kit. Afterall you could make a knife out of flint when out and about but isn't it easier to carry a knife? Low tech but still tech.

Where you draw the line is choice but should the tech heavy mrt have to come out risking their lives so you can avoid using tech?

IMHO say a GPS could be a back up or the map and compass is the backup to the GPS. The main thing is you have a backup or a strategy to cope should one fail.

Compass fail? I've had one fail. I've had two with me that trip and they both pointed in different directions. Not held together so no interaction or anything. I fished the GPS out of my bag, turned it on and used its compass to navigate since I had no idea which compass, if any, was ok.

 

[Lithril]

I'm a tech geek at heart and I do like gadgets. Saying that I also enjoy getting away without tech so I can appeciate both sides of the argument here. If I'm hiking I'll always carry my Silva compass and map rather than rely on electronics. That doesn't mean I'll not have them with me, I've used the GPS on my Garmin watch before when I've been mountain biking in the woods and misjudged my speed. I could have used the map to workout my location but actually the GPS took seconds. I've also had compasses swap 'polarities' which nearly caught me out. Given a choice I'll use a map when walking over electronics but if I'm out running I'd rather upload the route to my watch and minimise what I'm carrying. I do quite like uploading those results back to Strava to track my training.

I've a cheap set of bluetooth headphones that make a great hands free and I'll sometimes use when running but usually I prefer the sounds of nature.

So I think there is a time and a place for tech but I don't think it'll replace quality training and skills first.

 

[Paul_B]

Have you considered bone conduction headphones.

https://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/..._Titanium_Wireless_Bone_Conduction_Headphones

Got a pair on order. Music and external sound. Hopefully good for my commute to work by bike. If not I'll use it in the office where the fact I'll hear the phone is important. My current ear buds block external sound.

 

[Lithril]

Have you considered bone conduction headphones.

https://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/..._Titanium_Wireless_Bone_Conduction_Headphones

Got a pair on order. Music and external sound. Hopefully good for my commute to work by bike. If not I'll use it in the office where the fact I'll hear the phone is important. My current ear buds block external sound.

Be very interested to hear how well they work.

 

[Paul_B]

I've read online that they're a bit weird at first sound quality isn't as good as normal headphones. Aftershokz ones are supposed to be good brand though. The trekz Titanium ones are Bluetooth and compatible with smartphones for calls as well.

I got mine for cycle commuting. Bought it Monday. It's been dispatched so possibly get it tomorrow.

I nearly got a cycle helmet with bone conduction built in. Coros Lynxx. That has a windproof microphone in the front of the helmet underneath the rim. Plus the man down function where if you deck out the helmet's G sensor detects it and the app texts a designated mobile number to tell them you've had an accident.

I only took the opinion I can use the aftershokz without a helmet (summer cycling and off the bike) but can't use the helmet with integrated headphone except on the bike.

 

[Bishop]

It's a balancing act IMHO.

So true, some have attempted adventures woefully unprepared such as the Snowdon Pyjamas incident. On the other end of the scale there's also a growing number of deaths attributed to over reliance on technology. Mountaineering Scotland have a nice article about the problem with the catchy title..
Death By GPS - how to get lost with pinpoint accuracy

 

[Paul_B]

Having said that two experienced climber friends with all the traditional kit came a cropper in a Scottish winter. They had the knowledge and experience to cope but circumstances worked against them.

They did a walk out one day then had to walk along a broad ridgeline of a hill back. There was an crag on one side and slope on the other. They walked away from the crag because of a big cornice. It was very bad visibility and a strong sideways wind (constant too) had sprung up.

They did all the right things with navigation in bad visibility. Bear in mind they're ML and serious winter climbers. Routes up Ben Nevis face in full Scottish winter conditions sort of level.

Only thing they couldn't gauge was the drift due to wind strength. Result was getting blown sideways several hundred metres towards the crag such that one by one they both fell through the cornice. Roped up one caught them both on the crag face. Upside down and away from the hole in the cornice. Eventually they worked their way back up and cut through the cornice to get out.

Technology could have helped. A simple grid ref check on a GPS would be accurate enough to catch this sideways drift before it caused the accident. I believe they had the GPS just didn't think they needed it.

Perhaps in difficult conditions technology and low tech should be used to double check against each other. Ppl shouldn't rule things out because of what I think is misguided views on technology vs low/no technology. One thing to go paleo in a nice safe valley or woods and another to do that in more risky conditions.

 

[Paul_B]

Be very interested to hear how well they work.

Got them today. They're not bad.

The sound is ok but I've got it on highest volume. It's not loud. It is easy to use. At first it's a bit strange feeling on. Not because of the bone conduction but the design. I wear spectacles and it didn't seem comfortable at first I've worked out how to wear it comfortably now.

Wearing it others can hear the headphones too. It's got major sound leakage. You're going to share your music with everyone.

As far as hearing sounds around you goes, it's not perfect. Whether you hear surrounding noise depends on how much you concentrate on the music. You can't hear outside noise as clearly as you would without it on. However even taking that into account you might not hear surrounding noise. I was in a room talking to someone whilst listening to it. I could not hear her at first until I stopped concentrating on the music.

It's a neat design. I like it. Yet to try it out on the bike. Perhaps I'll try it tomorrow.

It comes with earplugs. If you're somewhere where you don't need to listen to surrounding noise then you use the earplugs. They come in a little plastic box. It also comes with a little storage bag, that seems to have an almost waterproof outer surface.

I'd recommend it to anyone especially cyclists.

 

[Nice65]

Got them today. They're not bad.

The sound is ok but I've got it on highest volume. It's not loud. It is easy to use. At first it's a bit strange feeling on. Not because of the bone conduction but the design. I wear spectacles and it didn't seem comfortable at first I've worked out how to wear it comfortably now.

Wearing it others can hear the headphones too. It's got major sound leakage. You're going to share your music with everyone.

As far as hearing sounds around you goes, it's not perfect. Whether you hear surrounding noise depends on how much you concentrate on the music. You can't hear outside noise as clearly as you would without it on. However even taking that into account you might not hear surrounding noise. I was in a room talking to someone whilst listening to it. I could not hear her at first until I stopped concentrating on the music.

It's a neat design. I like it. Yet to try it out on the bike. Perhaps I'll try it tomorrow.

It comes with earplugs. If you're somewhere where you don't need to listen to surrounding noise then you use the earplugs. They come in a little plastic box. It also comes with a little storage bag, that seems to have an almost waterproof outer surface.

I'd recommend it to anyone especially cyclists.

There's an app called EQ 10 that I use to boost volume without an inline amp, it's pretty good and allows a load more sound tweaks than the basic iPhone equaliser. In fact you can make your music sound really different with the filters. And it's free.

I've been using a set of the over ear Sony MDR noise cancelling headphones for a while and am genuinely impressed with them. They can be set to allow external sound in, or, should you be sat in an airport waiting for flight info, a voice setting too. All the controls are accessed via touch to the headphones and a touch/hold stops the music completely until released and opens the external mikes for conversation. They won't suit a cyclist, but compared with the similar Bose offering they're feature packed.

Apart from that, in terms of merging, I use an Apple TV box to Airplay anything from my phone or iPad to my TV. Really handy for films, home vids etc.

 

[Paul_B]

Aah! I bet that app is Apple only. I'm an Android only kind of a guy. Except for when a boss who's an apple fanbois makes everyone use iPhone at work. He knows I like the highly instinctive and easy to use android phones not the annoyingly awkward iPhone!

PS I'm serious. The 5s I have seems to believe my work emails should be sent to my phone, even the ones from 6 years ago! Plus there's no easy way to select and delete them, well it's not as easy as android. Seriously Apple fanbois say it's our company's email system but it's not. I set email up on my personal android phone and it didn't load up 398 old emails at a time after I delete the previous block.

 

[Lithril]

Aah! I bet that app is Apple only. I'm an Android only kind of a guy. Except for when a boss who's an apple fanbois makes everyone use iPhone at work. He knows I like the highly instinctive and easy to use android phones not the annoyingly awkward iPhone!

PS I'm serious. The 5s I have seems to believe my work emails should be sent to my phone, even the ones from 6 years ago! Plus there's no easy way to select and delete them, well it's not as easy as android. Seriously Apple fanbois say it's our company's email system but it's not. I set email up on my personal android phone and it didn't load up 398 old emails at a time after I delete the previous block.

With you completely

 

[Paul_B]

Is there an apple backlash going on?

I thought I heard or read that they weren't doing as good as expected. Was it China not taking them up as strongly as planned?

Then there's the security mess over the non-existent password getting you into Macs on the newly released os. They're not invincible!

 

[Nice65]

Ach, sour grapes because there aren't any decent equalisers or volume booster apps on Android.

Seriously, its personal preference with a hearty spoonful of resistance to change. I can't for the life of me operate my mums Samsung and don't really want to learn.

 

[snappingturtle]

I'm around tech all the time, I work at and monitor an automated building, I have a lot of camera's and over watch several other buildings, I have to carry a radio, phone and alarm pager plus my bunny burner pocket torch, I monitor com's rooms, ups units, heating system and cooling systems etc I'm fine with tech its just when I'm out for a hike I want to go old school, meaning self reliance and in some way isolated and only have low solid tech to lean on, for me its about how I want to connect I can do that via me and my sense or via the visor of tech both work, but the feeling differs a lot an when out I know which I crave.

 

[Janne]

Well, I do use Aluminium and synthetic materials, but that is about the most modern tech. Ok, my Silva compass was designed in the interwar period.
To use modern tech instead of a skill ( gps vs compass and map for example) I see as quite dangerous.
I go into Nature to get away from technology.

 

[Paul_B]

Is there no skill involved in using GPS? Indeed at what point do you consider it skill? Navigating by stars and sunlight or map and compass? It's just different tech.

I think this argument about being out in the wilds to avoid tech, then talking about using map and compass is a little amusing. What you mean is modern tech. You're quite happy using technology it's just you've stopped at a certain year.

It's a little like saying I don't like modern music but your group is bananrama. What you're saying is anything after the 1980s isn't to your taste. That's a valid POV just don't say you don't like modern music.

Personally I use whatever tech suits my needs. If that's a knife made with a modern steel blade or GPS or smartphone or paper address book and phonecard. Whatever suits my needs at the time. At one point everything you use was latest tech.

 

[Janne]

Yes i agree, but modern ( read electronics) tech need power. Lose the power and if you can not use the old methods you are in trouble.
That is why I choose the older tech. Also it is lighter.
Plus I find a paper map quicker and easier to read than a screen, searching for routes, water, places to sleep and so on.
Yes I can navigate by stars and the sun, but that is a quite inaccurate method without any tools.

I learned navigation and the other vital bushcrafting skills before todays electronics.

Skill using a gps? Well.....

I should say that I do use a gps assisted electronic chart. On the sea.
As a backup in case the weather turns bad.

 

[Janne]

In the late 70’s and early 80’s, I belonged to a unit situated in northern Sweden, and one of our roles was mountain rescue.

Of the rescues we did, the vast majority was finding people that had lost their way. Went trekking on trails, lost their way. The majority were tourists from outside Scandinavia.

Even if you use a gps, I think it is a safe option to also be able to navigate without one. A map and compass weight very little, and can save you.
Drop your gps and it may break. Drop you compass and it can break, but mostly they just lose the liquid through the crack.
But if you lose it, you can navigate using upir analog watch.

Backup systems.

 

[Janne]

Bananarama were hotties. I prefer Blondie and Nina Hagen though!