Deer Poo ID help needed

[John Fenna]

Can someone help ID these droppings found at Castell Henllys two days ago? This is the first trace of deer on site, although Muntjac, Red and Roe have all been seen in the area on rare - very rare - occasions in the past. No trace of slots in the area but the ground is not good for taking prints of any sort at the moment.
I would love to know what we have on site

 

[British Red]

Am I missing the picture John?

 

[John Fenna]

Oooops - sorted!

 

[Broch]

Sorry John, I have a great deal of difficulty identifying the smaller deer dropping when I'm there let alone by photo. This is my crib sheet though:

Muntjac – typically spherical and black, wet looking, 1-1.5cm long, 0.5-1cm+ diam, often in large piles

Roe – cylindrical, usually pointed one end, round at the other, dark, shiny, 1-1.5cm long, .7-1cm diam

Fallow – oval, acorn shaped, pointed one end, idented the other, black at first then brown, 1-1.5cm long, .8-1.2cm diam

Red – large acorn, usually pointed one end, round or indented the other, black, wet at first, 2-3cm long, 1.3-1.8 diam

Yours look to be about 1.5 to <2cm long with a pointed end and an indented end. If that is the case, I suspect it's Fallow which has been recorded SE of Cardigan between 2000 and 2016

 

[British Red]

My initial reaction is "Big". Of the three species you mention John, I would err towards Red. I would be very surprised to hear they were Munties (we get a lot of them and their scat is half that size - almost bunny like). In places where I've watched larger species together (e.g. Bradgate in Leicester) its very hard to tell say Fallow from Red

 

[slowworm]

What do they taste like....

I have red and roe on my woodland, the droppings look too large for roe to me. However, I would expect to see a bigger pile of they are red.

 

[FerlasDave]

Is it worth noting they might be Sitka? They are known to be in that area.

 

[John Fenna]

It is getting even more confusing now

 

[Broch]

Is it worth noting they might be Sitka? They are known to be in that area.

Good point, and they look exactly like Fallow and small Red droppings - did I mention I find it difficult?

 

[SoldierPalmer]

Possible sheep? I can’t see a nipple on them from the images

 

[John Fenna]

Deffo a nipple on one end, dimple (on some of the others) at the other end, fibrous content, leathery outer surface, no noticeable odour, firm texture, olive green, semi gloss when not covered in rainwater. On a patch of land swept of leaves, lots of similar swept areas around, lots of badger activity around , known fox and badger through route, mixed hardwood woodland, slate/shale substrate ....

 

[FerlasDave]

I think the next step should be some trail-cams John.

 

[SoldierPalmer]

I’m guessing fallow I’ve seen them near just outside of Lampeter. They seem to be really spreading around the south in the last 10 years. We are inundated with them around the Afan forest.

 

[Broch]

I’m guessing fallow I’ve seen them near just outside of Lampeter. They seem to be really spreading around the south in the last 10 years. We are inundated with them around the Afan forest.

Especially now John has said olive green (though fresh ones should be shiny black). I'm with Dave, to be certain, either an overnight (if it's allowed - I'll volunteer to join you John, I'll bring a malt ) or a trail cam

 

[slowworm]

Many of the red deer droppings in my woodland are very green, a dark green but certainly not black. I expect it's down to the lush grass.

Whatever animal it is, look out for a hole in its pocket as it's dropped a ruler.

 

[John Fenna]

I believe that the trail cams are being deployed already ... nothing to show yet...