Day pack weight, in extreme cold environment?

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Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
9
Brigantia
Been messing around with all my kit laid out, seeing what works and what doesnt fit.

Im coming up quite heavy. What do you think?

What weight would you expect to carry for jaunts out from a base camp, with just a 35-45 litre daypack, standing still, often times, to listen to instructors, or being active, building snowshoes, quinzes, then stood still again, fishing etc. Possibly down to -40 degrees.

You have to bring your own snacks. I think Im going to be looking at about 18-19Kg! with snacks and water included


Frost River Daypack. 11.3kg


With Kingsize thermo extreme Jerven Bag rolled up and strapped to top with leather straps. [Not in its stuff sack] This is my mothership jacket, as well as a bivy bag on a night.

Main Compartment:
1 Nalgene bottle in a neoprene/mylar sleeve I made, in one side pocket.
Small microfibre towel in aloksack in other side pocket. Along with a thin green pasted strop, 10lb fishing line, paracord, tarred bank like, and a few of my own rubber fishing lures in a small alumium brit army cigarette case. And a speedhook.
Some dental floss, small hank of copper wire.
x3 pairs of Swedish Army Wool socks/ m90 gauntlet gloves, with dachstein inners/ushanka hat/merino and possum beanie, and merino/possum buff in one dry bag.
Spare 15 litre dry bag marked garbage.
One dry bag with a 400g woolpower top in it.
Foam CFF Mat cut to fit pack, for back support and to sit/kneel on.
White Swedish army windproof cotton overtrousers.
Jerven stuff sack. [Made out of same stuff as bag, good for keeping miscellanious items from freezing.]
Neoprene Knee brace/support.
Small breathable cotton bag, with snow goggles in, spare hestra glove liners.
A Bob duludstrude bow saw, in a cordura bag, with a spare blade, and a thin foot long aluminium blow tube for the fire, insulated at mouth end.
14cm Zebra Billy, 5Litre sea/summit kitchen sink in top. Small Bottle eco friendly camp suds.
Lightweight anodised aluminium primus eta bowl, with grips and spork.
And a small cut off of non metal pan scrub.
One Dave Budd tomahawk
Ranger beads on one front strap, leather pouch with silva 15tdcl on other front pouch.
Ortlieb map case, with map.
Front zipped compartment; zebra headtorch, 4 spare batteries eneloop Small folding knife in a small hardcase. Toilet kit in small xs dry bag, hand snanitizer TP, small gas lighter, and wet wipes.
A bungee strap to act as belt for the jerven bag. Thin stainless steel chain, 1metre long for tripod.

SASS double ventile Smock pockets: 2.7kg.
Coyote fur ruff.
Contact gloves
Powergen pack and apple Iphone inside close to body, along with brass zippo.
Tinder bag, containing small amounts of charcloth, resinous fat wood, powdered compressed natural firelighters. in a tobacco pouch in an XS dry bag.
Large rubber swedish fold a cup.
two packets of wet wipes [x10 per pack] wool handkerchiefs, [cut up scarf]
small notebook with cut down pencils in small plastic bag
1 spare firesteel in small leather pouch in side arm pocket.
Sunglasses Maui Jims in hardcase.
Snacks? Idiot string hestra gloves.


Then Ive got the belt kit as well. Weight about: 2.7kg

PB bushcraft knife in leather sheath, Laplander, leather sheath, snow brush, possibles pouch, including sewing kit, fire kit in a tobacco tin, awl, slow match, flint and steel, charcloth and jute. Small aluminium brit army ciggy tube, with 50 brit army stormproof matches.
DC4, flat duct tape, chapstick, mini hand moisturiser, maxped with empty flask, whistle. Firesteel on pararcord, to belt, detachable clip in pocket.
[At times tomahawk may be hanging from belt, and maxped flask clipped to outside of pack.]

[Lacking snow spikes]

So thats 16.7 kg, on my upper body, without daily snacks and water, and not including the weight of my other layers, like Swanddri bushshirt, 200g woolpower top, woolpower leggings, swedish woolen m39 army pants, with cuts kit in pocket, puttees, Sorel caribou boots or us moccasins/snowshoes..

What would you sub zero fellas say about that?

Would you carry less or more than that for a days jaunt?
 
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Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
9
Brigantia
I'm wondering why if you are in a cold place, you are not considering a small sled or toboggan. In that case while you might have to add that to pack weight to get by difficult places, you could jog pulling it with much more weight.

Its a course. There will be use of a pulk at certain times, inlcuding more kit than this, sleeping kit etc. Other days it will just be a daypack.
 

sunndog

Full Member
May 23, 2014
3,561
477
derbyshire
personally I wouldn't worry about it too much. It will self sort after the first day :D

on a course i'm guessing you wont be walking too far or needing your full array of gear every day
So my advice would be to take as much gear as you feel comfortable with then Just leave stuff behind as you find out what YOU actually need
 

Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
9
Brigantia
personally I wouldn't worry about it too much. It will self sort after the first day :D

on a course i'm guessing you wont be walking too far or needing your full array of gear every day
So my advice would be to take as much gear as you feel comfortable with then Just leave stuff behind as you find out what YOU actually need

Yeh, Im not too worried, I just wondered what some of the other lads, who had done arctic courses had been carrying in their daypacks, weight wise, distance wise.

And even though I havent had that response, I find using the forum like this personally useful, :D, as I edit then re edit, and finally come up with what I want to carry, so Ive already printed the above list off, and decided this is what I'll be shoving in my daypack, as soon as I arrive. Believe me, theres a lot more I'd want to take that I've had to leave out. :) That list has gone to the bin.

Its shame you cant tell how cold it'll get throughout the day, as I would have liked to have included the US moccasins in the pack, for temps exceeding -20, but theres just no room. So I'll have to decide first thing which footwear to wear. :)

Ive had a full dress rehearseal with the trousers, puttees, [which are bloody brilliant.] swanndri, underlayers, windproof layers, gloves, checking tabs, doing minor reapirs and mods, wearing the jerven as a coat etc etc, and I have to say Im very happy with the clothing Ive chosen, its extremely comfortable.

Preparing for the thing, is almost as much fun as doing it....:D
 
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Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
9
Brigantia
Yeh, youve missed it buddy. Theres a stainless steel flask, and a nalgene bottle. Both fit into a maxped mini roly poly folding belt pouch, with a small carabiner on.
So I can have either one in it, on my belt, or clipped to the pack.

I actually got a neoprene apple tablet case from the pound shop, and cut it up, stitched up two insulated sleeves for them. I reckon if I keep the nalgene inside the neoprene case, then put that in the jerven stuff sack, it wont freeze. Probably end up putting electronics in the jerven stuff sack as well. As Damaian suggested I might have a trial in the freezer first.

Ive also got a white nalgene bottle, which is not bpa free, [teepee reccomended it] to use as a hot water bottle, in a woolen sack, made out of an old scarf. I'll put damp glove liners, and socks in it, and take it into my sleeping bag with me on a night. But that wont be in the daypack.

Keeping large swedish foldacup in my smock pocket, for easy access to a drink if there is one. Like a kuksa hanging off your belt.

I did mod the crusader mug, and lid, shown in another thread, but Im not taking it out with me. Reading Mors kochanskis winter pamphlet the other day, and he recommends just taking a six cup billy.
 
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Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
9
Brigantia
One thign I have had a problem with is KLM dutch airlines, as Ive talked to their customer service twice now, and they tell me I cannot take a lighter with me in hand luggage or hold luggage!

Ive explained to them, that all the UK government websites say I can take one lighter with me, on my person, but they aint having it.

So thats an unsolved problem. As Ive got a couple of zippos I want to take.
 
Nov 29, 2004
7,808
22
Scotland
In similar circumstances (The Woodlore Arctic Experience Course) I carried much less with me when out and about, much of what I was carrying was in my pockets. Something which I can recommend is more than one pair of gloves and if your gloves have separate liners, extra liners.

I carried a pair of Hestra gloves, two sets of liners and some Swedish army leather mitts with woolpower liners and managed to keep all my fingers. :)
 

Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
9
Brigantia
Do you remember those old wall hanging thermometers?

il_340x270.380207310_6e20.jpg




Well a while back, I found one and took the thermometer out, and Ive just stuck it, to the back of an old badge. :)

It accurately goes down to -25. C
Dont know if I should risk it though....the extra weight..... Might be the straw that broke the camels back.......:)





Stuck it on a pack strap
 
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Dave

Hill Dweller
Sep 17, 2003
6,019
9
Brigantia
In similar circumstances (The Woodlore Arctic Experience Course) I carried much less with me when out and about, much of what I was carrying was in my pockets. Something which I can recommend is more than one pair of gloves and if your gloves have separate liners, extra liners.

I carried a pair of Hestra gloves, two sets of liners and some Swedish army leather mitts with woolpower liners and managed to keep all my fingers. :)

Andrew, it says above mate, Im carrying exactly the same, hestra gloves, with spare liners, swedish m90 gauntlet gloves, with dachstein inners.
And contact gloves in smock pocket.

TBH it sounds a bit like im complaining, when im not really. Theres lots of ways I could cut weight. Could have taken a swedish m90 jacket, [998g] for instance over the jerven bag [1880g] Could have gone titanium, but Im just happy with the kit Ive chosen.

[And I look pretty damn good too.;) Like an extra from an alistair maclean film. :lmao:]
 
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bambodoggy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2004
3,062
50
49
Surrey
www.stumpandgrind.co.uk
Preparing for the thing, is almost as much fun as doing it....:D

Lol...I was just reading your thread and thinking, "this bloke's enjoying his prep isn't he"! :).

I've been up to the Arctic on both civvy and military courses quite a few times and never put this much thought and planning into it, at first I thought you were a little ott.....but I started to realise you were enjoying the build up and packing as part of your trip and thats cool :)

The last time I was up there, in Finland as it happens, I arrived in -35 and by the end of the ten days it was +5.....I only had the one pair of boots and a pair of down tent booties. I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that while kit is very very important up there, you're there to learn and enjoy the arctic and not just to swap from one bit of kit to the next as the weather/environment dictate. You are on a course with experienced people who will ensure you are safe (it is a course not an expedition right?) so use it to make mistakes and find out how to deal with them in a safe environment under instruction rather than reach for the next bit of shiny kit.
Provided you have the minimum on their kit list then you have enough to do the course :)

I'm not the best writer in the world so hope I've explained myself properly above.....I'm not trying to dampen your enthusiasm or anything (how could I, you're going to have a great time)....just cautioning about fixating too much on kit :)

Hope you have a great trip....I'm sure you will :)

All the best,

Bam. :)
 

sunndog

Full Member
May 23, 2014
3,561
477
derbyshire
Yeh, Im not too worried, I just wondered what some of the other lads, who had done arctic courses had been carrying in their daypacks, weight wise, distance wise.

And even though I havent had that response, I find using the forum like this personally useful, :D, as I edit then re edit, and finally come up with what I want to carry, so Ive already printed the above list off, and decided this is what I'll be shoving in my daypack, as soon as I arrive. Believe me, theres a lot more I'd want to take that I've had to leave out. :) That list has gone to the bin.

Its shame you cant tell how cold it'll get throughout the day, as I would have liked to have included the US moccasins in the pack, for temps exceeding -20, but theres just no room. So I'll have to decide first thing which footwear to wear. :)

Ive had a full dress rehearseal with the trousers, puttees, [which are bloody brilliant.] swanndri, underlayers, windproof layers, gloves, checking tabs, doing minor reapirs and mods, wearing the jerven as a coat etc etc, and I have to say Im very happy with the clothing Ive chosen, its extremely comfortable.

Preparing for the thing, is almost as much fun as doing it....:D


Nowt wrong with any of that mate, we all enjoy it
Its been so long since i'v been to the arctic and after updating/replacing a load of my kit for this years aborted trip. I couldn't do you a kit list without going through the exact same process as yourself lol

I think us folks who don't spend enough time in that environment always take far too much gear.....but when else are you gonna test it eh? :cool:
Not being one to weigh my kit beyond total luggage allowance, i'd guess my day pack to be around 10kg. Once it starts to feel heavy I start taking stuff out

But it all depends on what your doing of course
Sat fishing i'd have loved a jervan bag to wrap around me.....out collecting firewood a bag is mostly there to stuff with the too many layers I started out with lol

the way i look at it. courses arent expeditions so as long as you've got more than enough gear to stop you freezing to death or dying of misery from chapped skin or wet gloves/socks then its all good, have a play

I know you weren't worrying about it mate, the above was just a bit of a generalisation
 

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