Custom Knife makers, are there any left?
- Thread starter jeremyctry
- Start date
$200-$400 is the hourly rate in your current line of work? That's $$416,000 - $832,000 per year assuming a standard 40 hour work week (more with overtime) Far above the rate for most skilled labor trades. The trades that make that well now only bring a few to mind. Underwater welding? Nuclear power production? Nurse Practicioner? to name a few. Certainly not ordinary metalsmithing.
I think many custom makers can get fed up with the customer part of the scenario. Lots of back and forth and more hassle of design for the same income as just making what you want? Seems like a no-brainer.
They may still do custom work but just not an option for everyone to purchase....
They may still do custom work but just not an option for everyone to purchase....
Professional self employed people don't get "overtime" , they charge a given rate for their expertise when clients come to them for a specialised skill set. It reflects the fact that they have a great deal of education, experience and talent at what they do, and that by the very nature of their business they do not work fixed hours or contracts. How is that different from a highly skilled custom knife maker, who is certainly not undertaking "ordinary metalsmithing"?
Actually professional, self employed people do indeed charge an hourly rate. The going rate for lawyers at the moment is around $750/hour. And I have serious doubts that a knifesmith is any more highly skilled than an ordinary metalsmith (the former makes implements for recreation to his own, or the customer's specs whereas the latter makes critical parts for high performance jets to aviation specs and tolerances (at a rate of $15 - $60 per hour depending on location of employment)
I made knives as a hobby. I have taken commissions but will not do so willingly again. I have read many discussion threads on US knife forums where makers far better and more experienced than I have said the same thing, and like me, they said that the decision to cease taking custom orders was a very good one.
There are a number of reasons for this. Some to do with the engineering/build process, some to do with the business side, and some to do with human nature and interactions.
Any time you are making a one-off commission there is more pressure and stress than when you are making your standard designs. It is easier to tell everyone "no custom orders" than to attempt to listen to ever punter describe what they want, discuss with them all the details and decide whether their particular request fits with your skills, tools and materials to minimise your stress and impact on other work.
One of the common remarks is that people wanting custom work often don't really know what they want, or have crazy ideas and expectations. Those that provide vague and open ended briefs are not much easier than those that send detailed specifications. They can still be disappointed when your interpretation of their brief doesn't look how they imagined or dissatisfied when their design for the ultimate fish filleting, twig whittling camp chopper doesn't work as hoped.
I have met very few knife makers who I would call self-satisfied with what they produce. All the best ones are super self critical. This is what drives them. They are also usually really poor at putting a price on their time. They know what the market at large asks for similar designs and are not comfortable asking much more. Some do, but they are in the minority. They are however acutely aware of the hours required to achieve a design and it tends to be a sore point if it takes a lot of time while they don't feel they can decently ask a lot of money for it. It makes it easier just to say "no" from the outset.
If someone wants a steel or handle material that you don't usually use it has to be sourced, if you mess up, you have to source more, and if you have any left over, you have to decide whether to use it up or keep it on the shelf. Materials left on the shelf don't make money, they just take up space. If it is a steel you don't usually use, how are you going to heat treat it? If you heat treat in-house you won't have a recipe for a new steel, so maybe you have to send it out. Sending out is expensive for just one or two blades and if you haven't used the steel before there is a decision over where to send it and what to ask for. Is the construction in line with what you usually make, or are you being asked to do something that you have not yet figured out?
There are a number of reasons for this. Some to do with the engineering/build process, some to do with the business side, and some to do with human nature and interactions.
Any time you are making a one-off commission there is more pressure and stress than when you are making your standard designs. It is easier to tell everyone "no custom orders" than to attempt to listen to ever punter describe what they want, discuss with them all the details and decide whether their particular request fits with your skills, tools and materials to minimise your stress and impact on other work.
One of the common remarks is that people wanting custom work often don't really know what they want, or have crazy ideas and expectations. Those that provide vague and open ended briefs are not much easier than those that send detailed specifications. They can still be disappointed when your interpretation of their brief doesn't look how they imagined or dissatisfied when their design for the ultimate fish filleting, twig whittling camp chopper doesn't work as hoped.
I have met very few knife makers who I would call self-satisfied with what they produce. All the best ones are super self critical. This is what drives them. They are also usually really poor at putting a price on their time. They know what the market at large asks for similar designs and are not comfortable asking much more. Some do, but they are in the minority. They are however acutely aware of the hours required to achieve a design and it tends to be a sore point if it takes a lot of time while they don't feel they can decently ask a lot of money for it. It makes it easier just to say "no" from the outset.
If someone wants a steel or handle material that you don't usually use it has to be sourced, if you mess up, you have to source more, and if you have any left over, you have to decide whether to use it up or keep it on the shelf. Materials left on the shelf don't make money, they just take up space. If it is a steel you don't usually use, how are you going to heat treat it? If you heat treat in-house you won't have a recipe for a new steel, so maybe you have to send it out. Sending out is expensive for just one or two blades and if you haven't used the steel before there is a decision over where to send it and what to ask for. Is the construction in line with what you usually make, or are you being asked to do something that you have not yet figured out?
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I may have missed it, but I don't see anywhere that the OP lists what it is that he was after, so we can only guess why makers have been turning him away.
As a general approach I would look for makers who are already making similar looking knives with the same materials. I would look for less established makers and people who do it part time, they are likely to find your request less disruptive. If it was me, I would draw out what I wanted, side view and top view, and then add tolerances that I could live with. For example, blade length +/- 1/8" for a small knife and 1/4 for a larger. Sure, a good maker will hit very close to spot on, but you want to take mental pressure off them so that they will accept the job in the first place. I would not offer to provide materials.
People who are successful at taking commissions are almost certain to have very long lead times. If taking commissions is their bread and butter, you should have more pull, but will pay both in time and money. If they don't usually take commissions, it makes for a more complex relationship. You may well be paying them, and feel that as a result they are working for you, but if they are able to sell all that they make, and are busy without taking commissions, then by taking your commission they are doing you a favour.
As a general approach I would look for makers who are already making similar looking knives with the same materials. I would look for less established makers and people who do it part time, they are likely to find your request less disruptive. If it was me, I would draw out what I wanted, side view and top view, and then add tolerances that I could live with. For example, blade length +/- 1/8" for a small knife and 1/4 for a larger. Sure, a good maker will hit very close to spot on, but you want to take mental pressure off them so that they will accept the job in the first place. I would not offer to provide materials.
People who are successful at taking commissions are almost certain to have very long lead times. If taking commissions is their bread and butter, you should have more pull, but will pay both in time and money. If they don't usually take commissions, it makes for a more complex relationship. You may well be paying them, and feel that as a result they are working for you, but if they are able to sell all that they make, and are busy without taking commissions, then by taking your commission they are doing you a favour.
I make one off's myself, never to be made that way again so it stays personal to that person, but I don't think you could make a living from it and a customer has to be very clear as to what they want, that is fine if they know knives and what they want! so far I've been lucky most were clear as to there needs, also they have been fine with the time frame I give and what I work in but in the main the time I put in is so much more than I can ask in price so I don't do it often.
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I sent a PM to a custom knife maker ( i actually think he's the best on the forum at the moment ) on the 22nd of this month regarding a possible commission........still no response 
I sent a PM to a custom knife maker ( i actually think he's the best on the forum at the moment ) on the 22nd of this month regarding a possible commission........still no response
Worth bearing in mind that with the new layout and notification settings it might have been missed.
Not quite the same but the majority of my courses are bespoke and I take commissions for Bows and wood carvings etc.
I will never get rich this way as yes it’s time consuming giving the customer exactly the experience they want but to me that’s the reason I got into the game in the first place.
I spend hours or days customising a bow answering emails and questions when I work out an hourly rate it’s always less than minimum wage.
People are more price sensitive these days but also craftsman have to realise that if you want a Bentley then you should have got a job in the City.
I have several bespoke knives. I paid a shed load of cash for them. If you want quality and time it costs.
I have approached several makers recently to make knives for Forest Knights to my specifications. The response was Luke warm at best.
I will never get rich this way as yes it’s time consuming giving the customer exactly the experience they want but to me that’s the reason I got into the game in the first place.
I spend hours or days customising a bow answering emails and questions when I work out an hourly rate it’s always less than minimum wage.
People are more price sensitive these days but also craftsman have to realise that if you want a Bentley then you should have got a job in the City.
I have several bespoke knives. I paid a shed load of cash for them. If you want quality and time it costs.
I have approached several makers recently to make knives for Forest Knights to my specifications. The response was Luke warm at best.
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