Criticise my stump -Felling advice sought.

[xavierdoc]

I enjoy a bit of coppicing, hedge-laying and general woodland management. I have received advice and help from many sources but I have no formal training.

There are certainly huge gaps in my knowledge and skills which I'd like to fill with training when time and money permit. In the meantime, forums like this are a great source of expertise.

To that end, can anyone offer advice/criticism of my felling technique based on the pics below:

The stump is a bit high but due to the lean I couldn't get lower for the undercut. (The stump was subsequently tidied up with a saw).

Any pointers/observations welcome.

 

[Mikey P]

Bottom of the gob-cut should be flatter and try to keep it an even depth all the way through: your hinge is curving towards either side of the gob-cut and it is therefore thicker in the middle. This means you have a strong point on the hinge, about which the tree can rotate when it falls.

The point of the even hinge is to ensure that the tree falls the direction you want it to go - I can't really see much of a hinge there at all. I'd suggest using the saw rather than an axe to make the felling cut as it's much more controlled and safer. Furthermore, the felling cut is way too high - it only needs to be a couple of cm above the 'V' of the gob cut; on yours it's more like 3-4 inches.

Also, start lower down! If that was felling for money, you've just wasted 2 feet of timber! By choosing a slightly different fall line, you could have made access to a lower felling cut easier.

Also, you probably should have cleared more of the smaller branches around the whole stump - these can prevent you from running away and, especially when using an axe, may catch the axe head. Minor point.

Sorry if it sounds a bit harsh but tree felling is a dangerous business and there are good reasons for all of my points above. Hope this helps and keep practicing!

 

[xavierdoc]

Bottom of the gob-cut should be flatter and try to keep it an even depth all the way through: your hinge is curving towards either side of the gob-cut and it is therefore thicker in the middle. This means you have a strong point on the hinge, about which the tree can rotate when it falls.

The point of the even hinge is to ensure that the tree falls the direction you want it to go - I can't really see much of a hinge there at all. I'd suggest using the saw rather than an axe to make the felling cut as it's much more controlled and safer. Furthermore, the felling cut is way too high - it only needs to be a couple of cm above the 'V' of the gob cut; on yours it's more like 3-4 inches.

Also, start lower down! If that was felling for money, you've just wasted 2 feet of timber! By choosing a slightly different fall line, you could have made access to a lower felling cut easier.

Also, you probably should have cleared more of the smaller branches around the whole stump - these can prevent you from running away and, especially when using an axe, may catch the axe head. Minor point.

Sorry if it sounds a bit harsh but tree felling is a dangerous business and there are good reasons for all of my points above. Hope this helps and keep practicing!

That's useful advice -no need to be gentle. I have a long way to go and don't want to blunder on without improving.

 

[tytek]

Rate my stump - for gods sake don't Google it!!!

 

[Waterworx]

Sorry, I just had to

 

[forestwalker]

I recently took down a large spruce with just an axe (manaed to balance it nicely aross a rock, just where I aimed), and I agree with Mikey P; make a strong hinge, think about safety. Branches that catch your axe my mean it is deflected into you, and no clear excape route may mean that you have just demonstrated the effiency of a deadfall for killing mid-sized mammals...

 

[CaptainBeaky]

Hi Xav

I see you have been using your new double-bit (christened mine last Saturday )
If you're felling to remove the whole tree, then you could do with leaving a taller stump, for leverage when getting the stump out.

Other than that, what Mike said

 

[rancid badger]

You could do a LOT worse, than take a look at this:

http://handbooks.btcv.org.uk/handbooks/index/book/132

cracking information source

I'm not convinced that the double bit axe is appropriate for the task there.

A Scandinavian forest axe, ( the S.F.A.'s big brother) might be more suitable and probably safer.

R.B.

 

[helixpteron]

Seeing as how you've been there, done that, here's...

 

[robin wood]

Good advice already. Looking at the gob it is a bit chewed but that does not matter, looking at the stump it looks like you went back and tidied it up before doing the felling cut. The main thing that does matter is the line at the back of the gob cut, this must be straight and clean (no bulgy bit in the middle). One of the easiest ways to achieve this is to use a saw for the bottom cut then axe out the waste but you can cut it clean with care with the axe.

 

[SOAR]

Not too bad, if it went the right way, you have dome something right, some good advice here already, you will be better of with a saw for the hinge you could do with ending up with a hinge something like this.

Keep safe though and dont take on something that you feel uncomfotable with.

 

[Peter_t]

not a bad effort

things to remember are to have a crisp strait sink cut (gob cut) and not to cut through the hinge!
if you damage the hinge you will lose all controle of the tree.

one of my proudest cuts made while i was at college. can't remember its proper name but we called it a pie cut, it is used with wedges to fell the tree in the opposite direction to its lean without pinching the saw. (can only be used with a chainsaw)

at least you didn’t have this problem!

leaning trees have a tendency to split suddenly and has taken lives. this is why you should NEVER stand behind the tree. always walk away at an angle and not to the side in case it bounces or roles on top of you.



have fun and be careful!

pete

 

[SOAR]

Danish cut, nasty looking barbers chair!

 

[phill_ue]

Danish cut, nasty looking barbers chair!

I wouldn't like to be in the way of that when it went, it'd take yer face off!

 

[Mikey P]

one of my proudest cuts made while i was at college. can't remember its proper name but we called it a pie cut, it is used with wedges to fell the tree in the opposite direction to its lean without pinching the saw. (can only be used with a chainsaw)

have fun and be careful!

pete

I remember being taught something like this - although I don't think it was called a pie cut. You cut the gob, and then most of the felling cut, and then did a cut in at an angle downwards using the end of the saw. Is that what you mean by a pie cut?

 

[Dave Budd]

Danish cut, nasty looking barbers chair!

I know that one as a dogs tooth cut'. same thing? I've heard of a barber's chair, but not seen one. Certainly not that dramatic! Ash is particularly prone to it by all accounts, though I've (thankfully) not experienced it myself so far.

 

[Peter_t]

I remember being taught something like this - although I don't think it was called a pie cut. You cut the gob, and then most of the felling cut, and then did a cut in at an angle downwards using the end of the saw. Is that what you mean by a pie cut?

i think the one you mean is called a split level, it does the same job but is used on trees too small to bore a hole with the bar.

dave- a dog tooth, also known as a tension release cut is used to fell trees in the direction of their lean. that picture of the Barbour chair was a result of not dong this cut (wasn't me btw! lol). the dogs tooth is similar to the danish (pie) cut as you bore in and hollow the middle making a hinge but you leave a strip about 2 inches at the back. then you cut in from the back to sever the strip of wood still holding the tree. they usually go 'CRACK!' and fall suddenly without splitting.


of course you can't do these mentioned cuts with an axe and hand saw so i recommend anyone useing these to get mors kochanskis 'BUSHCRAFT' book. it tells you everything you need to know about felling with an axe and saw and how to look after them.


keep safe and know your cuts!
Pete

 

[Basha72]

I have cut down many trees with the axe when I first started in Forestry we had to use all the various tools a woodsman would use throughtout the year. Chainsaws are great for speed and getting the maximum amount of product out of the tree, but it don't sound as good as 15 blokes chopping away at trees.

When people first have a go a chopping a tree down, they think the harder they swing the tree will be down in a few swings ! then they scim the tree and the axe flys around out of control, then when you manage to hit the tree the cuts are not accurate and you end up cutting loads of wood out which there was no need to do, If I am taking out the dip cut on the felling face of the tree about 9inc to 12 inch dia I will take out at least a 5 inch high cut that way it allows for a bit of movement in the swing, i'll take out a good size chips with the angle of the cuts I come in at.

With practice you can get pretty tidy cuts. Another point is when people swing hard when they are near to completion of the dip cut you can very easy cut through the hinge and as others have said this is where the control is in felling a tree. Many of the Old school fellers who did use axes for felling would cut out the dip then use a cross cut saw to come in from the rear so the hinge would be nice and straight. You can still acheive this with an axe but if you have a choice go for the cross cut saw or a good bow saw.

http://www.hancockhouse.com/products/product_images/BigTim1.jpg[/IMG]


The main thing with axes is Practice - Practice and then keep practicing let the axe do the work most people would not attempt to take a very big tree down with one.

The worrying thing with a chainsaw is anyone can buy one and that people try to take down big trees with no formal training and end up either dropping the tree on the house, car or they themselves get injured or killed

PS I'm no expert i've just found a way that works for me

Basha72

 

[CaptainBeaky]

Excellent advice in this thread

I'm doing some felling next w/end, and some of those are leaning quite heavily (badly overgrown coppiced chestnut).

Also found some very useful info on the Treeworld forum - bit America-centric, but sound info with lots of pics and videos - especially on the dog-tooth cut.

(Thread here)

 

[robin wood]

Barbers chair is very scary. The one in the pic is only small but still a good bit bigger than a baseball bat and you wouldn't want it in your face. The more common way for them to get you though is for it to go up, split off and come crashing down on top of your head. I had a good friend who had one of those, it didn't kill him but he was severely brain damaged. It is normally caused by a leaning tree under tension and is common an sloping ground. Tree work is one of the most dangerous jobs out there, statistically 4 times more dangerous than the national industrial average. If you work in the arb industry you stand a 1 in 80 chance of death or serious injury every year and that is with full training.