Couple of lovely birds and a little rant!

[mutineer]

So the 2 lovely birds I refer to are the Eagle on the sheath of the Ahti Korpi and the woodpecker on the sheath of the Ahti Tikka [URL="https://www.lamnia.com/en/p/1419/knives-and-folding-knives/ahti-tikka-woodpecker-finnish-puukko-knife"]https://www.lamnia.com/en/p/1419/knives-and-folding-knives/ahti-tikka-woodpecker-finnish-puukko-knife
They cost me £40 and £30 respectively, shipped free within a week from Finland from Lamnia. Lamnia is in my opinion, as awesome as Heinnie, just in Finland. Its because of the price that I bought the Tikka too for my lovely lady. She squealed with excitement!
I could talk for ages but there are 3 points of rantage I need to get off my chest.

1) These traditional puukos are wonderful. I know there are still lots of people who still think the same but there are a lot of people who seem to ignore them in favour of the Woodclone. Why, despite the knowledge of wood carvers and generations of Scandinavian experience, are people opting for thicker, longer and wider blades with unnecessarily large finger guards and an obtuse 'Scandi grind' under the pretence that it's better in wood? I would encourage anyone who wants to go up from the Mora to buy an Ahti knife, and try a shorter blade too.

2) That Ahti Korpi cost me £40. This Kellam Striker would cost you £80. http://www.heinnie.com/kellam-striker
Could it be the same knife, with the same Lauri blade, with the same handle but a different sheath made by the same maker, sold by Kellam, a knife distributor at TWICE the price?

3) The not so scandi grind! It seems that a lot of people are sticking a 30 degree full flat angle on their knives. I don't get this for many reasons. I remember reading a Robin wood article that said stop taking the secondary bevel off your Mora knives. Also, some of these full flat grinds that come from manufacturers don't meet together at the edge- have fun on the bench stones! If you ding the blade with hammering your knife into a piece of wood, an obsession with some people, again, have fun on the bench stones! The Lauri blades have a high scandi grind with a secondary bevel. That wide primary bevel sits nicely on the stone to grind it back and the secondary bevel is a breeze to just pop on and be retouched when required. And that's exactly how carpenters do chisels. Main grind at 25 degrees with a secondary bevel at 30. And the irony is that when they regrind the primary bevel, a 1" chisel has 8 times less metal to grind back than a 4" knife. I do have a full flat scandi by the way. A Frosts mora carving knife. Ooooh its a beauty. But its a dedicated carver and I treat it like a princess. Who wants to do that with a utility knife?

I used to own an Enzo trapper with scandi grind. The grind towards the tip was really obtuse. Did not like it one bit. The full flat grind Enzo trapper however makes a lot of sense to me.
Have I said too much? I hope so! Maybe its just a case of to each his own, but for the money, I don't know why people bother.

ATB, Nick

 

[Janne]

1) These traditional puukos are wonderful. I know there are still lots of people who still think the same but there are a lot of people who seem to ignore them in favour of the Woodclone. Why, despite the knowledge of wood carvers and generations of Scandinavian experience, are people opting for thicker, longer and wider blades with unnecessarily large finger guards and an obtuse 'Scandi grind' under the pretence that it's better in wood? I would encourage anyone who wants to go up from the Mora to buy an Ahti knife, and try a shorter blade too.

I don't know why people bother.

ATB, Nick

http://morakniv.se/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/classic-2-0.png

You can get one with a shorter blade. Or longer. Whatever you fancy.

We Scandinavians tend to use ( and abuse) Mora knives like semi disposable tools. Use, sharpen on something harder than the blade, chip the edge, break the tip. Use a metal file to take out the worst. When too battered we throw it away and reach for the next one in the toolbox. As we have usually a few there, with different blade lengths for different tasks.

Repeat, we see them as tools. Made cheaply to be sold cheap. Despite the low cost they are made using the best edge steels in the world.
Not made to be macho ornaments to polish on Friday nights. For that we buy something else.

Nor do we anally think about angles of the factory grind, as that angle disappears the first time we sharpen it. If we want a super sharp blade, we buy the Carbon steel. As a bonus it rusts and becomes very beautiful.
The shiny polished stainless steel blades reflect light, which scares Elk and old ladies away. But that is naturally easily fixed at the very first sharpening, when we scratch the blade sides on the sharpening stone we picked up while having a cup of coffee.

Of the Moras I have owned, and own, all have angles that meet at the edge.

The Finns make very good knives too.
As they speak Finnish, they call them "pukko". In Sweden and Norway we call them "kniv".
Both words mean "knife" in English.
You can call them a parallel development to the Swedish knives. Helle knives are another functional, Norwegian, parallel development. (But most Norwegian knives are fancier and more expensive these days, as Norway is a very rich country.).

All Scandinavian knives have been developed over a couple of centuries to be as functional as possible for a multitude of tasks.
You can take your Swedish/Finnish/Norwegian or Same knife, cut your bread and cheese in the morning, stir the coffee.
You can then take it to the forest, dispatch the badly wounded deer, dress it. Carve some thin wood slivers and birch bark to make your fire. Batten the larger chunks of wood.
Back home cut some deer steaks, then use it to cut up the fried meat before you put it in your mouth. You probably peeled your potatoes with it too.
Before bed you might put a sharp edge on it again using the bottom of the beer bottle where you removed the bottle top with the knife.

 

[mrcharly]

I've never heard of carpenters advocating secondary bevels on chisels before. That's a new theory to me.

Some googling suggests that some suggest doing it, some don't. It isn't what I was taught at school.

 

[mutineer]

Janne. I hear what you say about Moras. Totally agree. Have a few myself!
As for the macho tool for polishing on Friday! I think that's the type of knife I'm talking about. They're too heavy, too clumsy and too expensive. These Ahti knives strike a great balance between being robust, functional and a joy to use.

As for the edge angles. I don't like to be too anal either. I think that when you use the knife you find your own way to keep it sharp for your own needs. I find this to be an intuitive thing and those high ground knives allow this better. Some of this is of course personal but those macho ornaments just make no sense to me.

As for chisels, I know that people have different preferences there too. I was just highlighting that touching up an edge is quicker and easier.

 

[crosslandkelly]

I've never heard of carpenters advocating secondary bevels on chisels before. That's a new theory to me.

Some googling suggests that some suggest doing it, some don't. It isn't what I was taught at school.

But exactly what I was taught as an apprentice back in the 70's.

 

[Janne]

Janne. I hear what you say about Moras. Totally agree. Have a few myself!
As for the macho tool for polishing on Friday! I think that's the type of knife I'm talking about. They're too heavy, too clumsy and too expensive. These Ahti knives strike a great balance between being robust, functional and a joy to use.

As for the edge angles. I don't like to be too anal either. I think that when you use the knife you find your own way to keep it sharp for your own needs. I find this to be an intuitive thing and those high ground knives allow this better. Some of this is of course personal but those macho ornaments just make no sense to me.

As for chisels, I know that people have different preferences there too. I was just highlighting that touching up an edge is quicker and easier.

Most people I know in Sweden and Norway put a secondary bevel close to the edge at the first sharpening. To sharpen a Mora "properly" keeping the scandi grind and angles would take forever unless you have the proper equipment.

Because this secondary bevel has a different angle, it is not so sharp buy stays sharper for longer. Also it depends on the main usage.