Correct me if I am wrong but

[8thsinner]

Aren't there three rules of three when it comes to fire making, I am talking of course about the fire triangles.

The basic one we all learn in school is obviously Heat, oxygen and fuel.
I have read of another which is Power, skill and materials

But isn't there another?

I am sure I remember that from somewhere, perhaps it was simply a different way of looking at it......

Friction, speed and something else.........I don't know

 

[Longstrider]

I don't know about any "corect" third triangle Sinner, but if my thirty years of unsuccessful attempts at fire by friction were anything to go by, might I suggest "Blood, Sweat and Tears" ?
You could always substitute "Foul Language" if your machismo won't allow you to admit to the fact that it reduced you to tears.....

I know I almost cried with joy the first time I got it to work!

Surely we all know that one about wood warming you three times over?
Once when you gather it, again when you saw/split it, and then finally when you burn it.

 

[8thsinner]

Surely we all know that one about wood warming you three times over?
Once when you gather it, again when you saw/split it, and then finally when you burn it.

I didn't know that one, at least not in words, I have not had thirty years of working it to learn to put it that way.

But thanks

 

[jdlenton]

I believe that Mors Kochanski refers to a fourth element of fire in "bushcraft" it's either there or in an article he wrote for the bulletin of primitive technology I cant remember quite what it is as its Monday morning and works rather busy if someone can't tell us I’ll look it up when I get home.

James

 

[Stuart]

I believe that Mors Kochanski refers to a fourth element of fire in "bushcraft" it's either there or in an article he wrote for the bulletin of primitive technology I cant remember quite what it is as its Monday morning and works rather busy if someone can't tell us I’ll look it up when I get home.

James

Mors kochanski refers to a tetrahedron of fire with four elements:

oxygen, fuel, heat and uninhibited chain reactions

 

[jdlenton]

Thanks Stuart thought you might know

James

 

[rich59]

My only contribution to this is to add a forth vital to the three musts of fire - fuel, heat and oxygen. The forth is "no dampness" (or other dampener)

 

[8thsinner]

SO maybe the third set then it
Moisture, friction and resins

Sounds all right right?

 

[Stuart]

Moisture, friction and resins

how does that create a fire triangle?

My only contribution to this is to add a forth vital to the three musts of fire - fuel, heat and oxygen. The forth is "no dampness" (or other dampener)

dampness removes heat thus its exclusion is already covered by the heat part of the triangle.

there seems to be some confusion about how the fire triangle is interpreted, the triangle shows the necessary requirments for ignition. remove any one requirment and the triangle collapses removing the possibility of fire.

 

[rich59]

dampness removes heat thus its exclusion is already covered by the heat part of the triangle.

there seems to be some confusion about how the fire triangle is interpreted, the triangle shows the necessary requirments for ignition.

Heat, fuel and oxygen are not just the necessary ingredients of ignition. They are also the necessary ingredients of sustained fire.

The "dampener" idea also applies to materials other than water. Calcium (from hard water) or fire retardent chemical deposits in char cloth are one example. Sand or soil mixed into the fire will slow it or stop it.

My 4th addition to the triad can be important in teaching about fire - the fuel must be pure, without unnecessary addition.

 

[jdlenton]

My only contribution to this is to add a forth vital to the three musts of fire - fuel, heat and oxygen. The forth is "no dampness" (or other dampener)

surely the dampness is covered because the damp inhibits the chain reactions ? as well as any other form of fire retardant

James

Edit : Ignore me I’d like to comment with a bit more clarity but I’m mega busy and can’t think long enough to comment properly sorry

James

 

[8thsinner]

Moisture, friction and resins

how does that create a fire triangle?




dampness removes heat thus its exclusion is already covered by the heat part of the triangle.

there seems to be some confusion about how the fire triangle is interpreted, the triangle shows the necessary requirments for ignition. remove any one requirment and the triangle collapses removing the possibility of fire.

I know very well how the triangle works, I meant it to sound like.....
No matter how much friction, excessive moisture and resins being present will never lead to a coal.