Cooking pots/pans advice.

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Alexlana

Member
Feb 26, 2014
41
0
Merseyside
Hi all, anyone recommend real good pots and pans including kettle? I have been using metal aluminium for years and taste was always metallic.

Price no object, so what's the best for cooking and coffee over open flames please. I don't use maths or chemicals only wood fuel. Thanks guys and girls.
 

ozzy1977

Full Member
Jan 10, 2006
8,558
3
46
Henley
My current go to pan the the zebra lunch box and primus litech kettle, and as the kettle is hard anodised it don't taint the water
 

Alexlana

Member
Feb 26, 2014
41
0
Merseyside
Hi ozzy, I looked at the zebra pots myself. On the primus litech kettle there aluminium made aren't they? Wanted to get away from the aluminium really.

What's the best stainless steel or anodised? What's the difference if any thanks. Also the equipment used has to be strong enough for full on flame from camp fire.
 

Johnnyboy1971

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 24, 2010
4,155
26
52
Yorkshire
Used anodised aluminium for years and never tainted my food or water.
Have you seen anything that you like.
 

ged

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 16, 2009
4,980
14
In the woods if possible.
Hi ozzy, I looked at the zebra pots myself. On the primus litech kettle there aluminium made aren't they? Wanted to get away from the aluminium really.

What's the best stainless steel or anodised? What's the difference if any thanks. Also the equipment used has to be strong enough for full on flame from camp fire.

There isn't really a 'best'. It depends on your criteria. Some people like stainless, some people don't like the weight of it. You can get some pretty thin stainless pots which aren't too heavy.

I think the fuss about aluminium from pans getting into the food has almost died down now. I don't know if there was ever a firm conclusion either way.

Yes, the Primus Litech range is aluminium. Aluminium is fine if you're sensible with it, and a lot lighter than stainless steel. I much prefer stainless as you can abuse it more than aluminium. I don't mind the extra weight.

I've seen people talking about melting aluminium pots by trying to melt snow in them. I'd say that if you have managed to melt an aluminium pot over a flame then you weren't being sensible. I've seen a non-stick frying pan (one of mine) destroyed in a matter of minutes in the same way.

On the subject of pot abuse, I wouldn't class as abuse of the pot going over it with a stainless pan scourer. If you use an aluminium pot on a camp fire you WILL need to scour it if you want it clean afterwards, but you will find a lot of black aluminium powder coming off the pot, with or without soot. I tend to compromise on aluminium pots that see the camp fire, I clean them on the outside roughly every year or so. I cleaned my little aluminium kettle just last week. To avoid getting soot on everything else I hoard polythene bags to keep the sooty pots in, sometimes several bags one inside another as the bags themselves get sooty.

An anodized aluminium surface is not particularly robust, and if you use a scourer on it you will destroy it. If you're using stainless you can at least get the thing clean again without damaging it.

Nothing beats a good non-stick surface (think Tefal or similar) for frying.
 

ged

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 16, 2009
4,980
14
In the woods if possible.

I have a similar stainless pan set (I think it came from Gelert) that I use on short motorcycle trips which I like a lot but it's a bit small for serious meals. The one you've linked to above looks as if it might be a little bigger than mine, and I'd like that better. :)
As there's no windshield I tend to use my pan set with an Optimus 8 rather than a meths burner. If necessary I generally use my pack and my body as the windshield, or a nearby rock or something.

Incidentally don't let any of them kid you about copper bottoms. They just have a flash of copper plated on, it's purely cosmetic and does nothing for the heat transfer.


This is Tatonka's version of the now almost legendary Trangia set. I have an original Trangia 27 in duossal in which I use the Trangia burner. The Trangia-style design is one of the best going. Flexible, efficient, works in wind. A tad on the bulky/heavy side and you really need to carry fuel separately as the burner doesn't hold very much and they're a bit prone to leaking.

I have a Tatonka stainless steel burner too (not part of the Tatonka set) so I can compare them.

If you haven't used one of these burners before you need to learn a bit about them. They run on alcohol only. They operate by vapourising the fuel and burning the vapour. The row of little holes around the top will be where the fuel vapour exits and burns once the burner is hot enough. You just pour in some fuel and light it, there's no messing with pumps or anything like there usually is with other fuels. When it's first lit from cold, the burner isn't hot enough to make vapour exit the little holes so it burns in the pool in the middle. That heats the burner until it's hot enough to boil fuel inside the burner under the little holes, and that's when the flame 'blooms' into a much bigger flame than when it's cold. If you're cooking beans, now's the time to think about buying a Leatherman or something so you can adjust the flame adjuster while the flame is licking around your fingers.

The time to bloom obviously depends on the starting temperature and how much cold fuel there is in the burner. It also depends on the material of the burner. The trangia burner is brass, the Tatonka is stainless steel. The heavier stainless burner takes a bit longer than the lighter brass one. The time is perhaps between five and ten minutes. While the burner is warming up and the flame is small you can heat the beans - which doesn't need a big flame - then put the kettle on after the flame blooms.

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Looks a bit pricey and I think I'd prefer a lid that's like, well, a lid. But I'm sure it will do the job especially if you're planning to hang it over a fire.
 

Alexlana

Member
Feb 26, 2014
41
0
Merseyside
Cheers ged that all makes a world of difference. Never messed with meths due to carrying etc might give it a bash, what fuel is best for a burner?
 

ged

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 16, 2009
4,980
14
In the woods if possible.
... Never messed with meths due to carrying etc might give it a bash, what fuel is best for a burner?

Again there isn't really a best. A lot is down to personal preferences and the way you travel. If you're carrying a month's fuel on your back you might have little capacity left for life's little luxuries like a sleeping bag.

Of the liquid fuels you basically have two types: hydrocarbons and alcohols. There's a wider range of solid fuels, from manufactured stuff like hexy blocks to things like wood that nature provides (but which burn a bit dirty) and derivatives such as charcoal which like anthracite is more or less pure carbon.

Solid fuels are relatively easy. You don't usually need any kind of equipment to burn them, you can often just put them in a pile and set light to them. Equipment like the famous 'Honey' stove, the lovable Kelly-style kettles or technical wood-gas stoves like the Bushbuddy can make it a lot more efficient and quicker to get a brew down your neck. I have a Ghillie kettle which goes with me almost everywhere. The equipment can be heavy and/or bulky, but you might not need to carry the fuel as you might be able to forage it on your travels so that can more than make up for the weight of the equipment. It's rare that I don't tidy up my camp site by burning a few bits of paper and odd sweet wrappers that thoughtless people have discarded. There might be local regulations forbidding ground fires and the equipment might avoid the regs or it might not. Solids like waxes are often used for starting fires and of course for illumination but rarely for heating/cooking. They'll usually need a wick, even for starting a fire, and maybe a container if they're to burn for an extended period. Burning charcoal gives off a lot of carbon monoxide so it's dangerous in enclosed spaces. People die that way every year.

Liquid fuels are more complicated. The hydrocarbons are essentially three groups: paraffins, petrols (or similar) and liquified gas mixtures. The distinction is in how many carbon atoms (somewhere between one and about a dozen) are in each molecule. The alcohols are usually ethanol, methanol and isopropanol. They mostly need some sort of burner. Most liquid-fuel burners give you a way to adjust the heat output of the flame, something that's more difficult with solid fuel burners.

The alcohol burners tend to be very simple, like the Trangia-style ones. Nothing to go wrong really, except perhaps a leak if badly/cheaply fabricated. Alcohols can be burned almost like a solid fuel, gelled alcohols especially, but it's better to use a burner even if it's just a bean can full of sand to keep things under control. The fuel isn't as unpleasant to handle as any of the hydrocarbons except perhaps liquified gas. Because alcohols contain some oxygen, and (compared with hydrogen and carbon) oxygen is a relatively heavy element, the fuels contain significantly less energy per unit volume and per uint mass than any hydrocarbon so you can end up carrying more weight per meal if your burner/pot system isn't efficient. The efficiency of something like the Trangia more or less cancels that out because for some reason the hydrocarbon setups rarely go in for great efficiency. There are exceptions to that such as pots with built-in heat exchangers, and occasionally you see a Trangia modified to take a pressure burner. An alcohol flame can be almost invisible in sunlight so it can be dangerous for the unwary.

For efficient burning for heating and cooking hydrocarbons usually need to be under pressure. The pressurized gas escaping from a small jet or nozzle causes turbulence, which mixes the fuel with the air to give a clean, efficient burn -- a blue flame. One notable exception is the old-style paraffin heaters which have a cylindrical wick around a chimney. The effect of the chimney gives enough air flow to get good mixing. One of my stoves works on this principle. Pressure can come from the fuel (like a gas kept liquified by pressure) or from heat boiling the fuel at the burner (like the Optimus 8) or from a pump (many stoves have a pump, a bit like a bicycle pump). Pressurized gase is very easy, you just turn on a tap at the burner and light it. LIke being at home in the kitchen, except in the kitchen it's usually above freezing point and butane won't come out of the bottle if it's below that as it boils around -0.5C. Even above that it can be reluctant after a few minutes because the evaporation of the liquid gas cools it below ambient -- you'll see frost start to form on the container. Wind can be an issue, the butane gas flame especially tends to be a flimsy affair. The hydrocarbon fuels that are liquid at room temperature invariably need to run through a very hot burner, which needs to be designed to burn that particular type of fuel. It also usually needs to be 'primed' (not unlike the Trangia needs to heat up to bloom, but a more definite process which needs to be complete before the fuel will burn properly). There are burners that 'roar' and 'silent' burners which, er, roar less. The roarer burners give a powerful flame which won't blow out in even fairly strong winds but the silent burners are pretty wind-resistant too. For me, part of the fun of using the liquid hydrocarbon fuels is getting the damned thing going. And keeping it going. And fettling the things to keep them working properly. And listening to the roar. And... it goes on and on. You can prime the burner with the fuel in the tank (and priming this way may generate a lot of smoke and soot) or you can for example use alcohol (poured into the little cup or wick placed around the burner for that purpose) which is much cleaner, only lighting the main fuel from the tank when the burner is up to working temperature.

Paraffin is much the cheapest and some say the best. You can use it in a hurricane lantern or a pressure lantern too. I llike it a lot but it smells bad and if you're not careful it gets everywhere (handling hydrocarbon fuels is quite an art in itself). I mostly use less dense fuels like Aspen 4 which is sold as a cleaner alternative to 95 octane petrol. Aviation spirit (100 octane) is fantastic because when it evaporates it leaves almost no trace. Not expensive but it's difficult to get hold of. If I run out of Aspen 4 (unlikely as I usually stock a couple of gallons) I can always siphon some fuel out of a petrol tank, assuming there's one nearby. Aspen can also be difficult to find and it's more expensive than 95 octane. Liquified gas is most expensive, in my opinion the least safe because it escapes easily and then hangs around as an explosive mixture with air, and you can't always find the style of container that you need just down the road. People refill their own containers but I've never fancied that kind of a risk.

A clean-burning liquid fuel (a blue flame) generates little carbon monoxide but fuels under pressure have to be treated with intelligence and respect or they will hurt you and perhaps others. Liquid fuel burners don't really allow for refilling while burning (no problem with most solid fuels) but I manage to refuel a running Trangia burner with an old contact lens solution bottle. That's not a recommendation, many people would call it unsafe, but I've been a pyromaniac since I could strike a match.

Incidentally don't use road fuel unless you don't mind the stink and you're happy with fettling burners. Petrol can clog up some burners and diesel won't burn cleanly in most burners -- but it can be done.

That's a quick run-down and time is pressing. I'm sure if I've missed anything important people will chime in. Feel free to ask for clarifications.

There's lots more if you spend some quality time reading threads here and for example on spiritburner.com which is a lifetime's entertainment all on its own. :)
 
Hi Alexlana,

Seeing as we've stretched from pans to burners, here's my current prefered set up:-

for the burner (meths): http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/cookers-and-stoves/RB102.html

Combined with this (in case I run out of/drink all the meths): http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/bushcraft/RD107.html (plus the universal trivet)

For my preferred pan I use the MSR Ti Kettle as it seems to do everything and weigh nothing - http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/msr-titan-camping-kettle-p118178

and as a luxury item, I take one of these so I can cook and have a brew: http://www.clasohlson.com/uk/34-4073?gclid=CJSS9_zqmb4CFTHItAoddD4AKA

I've come to favours this over the years as pretty much nothing can go wrong, so long as you can find something to burn, you've got a coffee and a hot meal.

I also love the French Army Mess Kit: - http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/30708-french-mess-kit-post-or-pre-war/ combined with a Grilliput: - http://grabcad.com/library/stainles-steel-griliput if weight isn't so much of an issue. Very versatile and bombproof (but in aluminium).
 

Alexlana

Member
Feb 26, 2014
41
0
Merseyside
Response has been great cheers, ok pot wise going for 2 zebra pots size 12 cm and 16cm ones. Going to purchase a trangia spirit burner, there only cheap so it can go into my modified hobo stove as back up to wood fuel. Pan wise going for a non stick stainless steel vango. Going hard plastic for my cups.

Thanks everyone.
 

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