Considering living off the grid.

[Laurentius]

I am 60 and would like to live off grid too, but the truth is that I thoroughly embedded in the urban world, not the least through my addiction to teh interwebs. The nearest I possibly come to off grid is my allotment, in that I can indulge a lot of my "Mother Earth News" fantasies. I have dug my own well, though I have yet to get round to making a sand and gravel filter to render the water a bit more potable. My little plot gives me everything bushcrafty in miniature, the only thing that annoys me though is that I cannot sleep there overnight, because that is against the rules, and as chairman of the allotment association, I am the last person who should be breaking them.

When I was in my twenties there was talk of renting an acre of farmland but that fell through, and then later on my family investigated the possibility of buying woodland, but again that fell through, which is a big regret now. I couldn't afford any land now, I squandered all my money on a University degree

 

[Tengu]

Yup, Unis are the best place ever. Has the OP considered going to one? True, they need Civilisation to flourish.

Have we seen the OP many times over the years?

Lots of sage advice.

Has the OP considered going living with some indigineous people? (And seeing how many would like to live in a city?)

 

[nuggets]

has he considered fitting solar panels to his roof ?? my mate gets a nice cheque every month from the `grid` for the electricity he generates , living off the grid in town and getting paid for it win win

 

[Laurentius]

has he considered fitting solar panels to his roof ?? my mate gets a nice cheque every month from the `grid` for the electricity he generates , living off the grid in town and getting paid for it win win

A sufficient number of solar panels to give back to the grid does take a certain amount of cash up front does it not? Solar panels are not exactly "off grid" in the traditional sense in that they are a highly technical product of industrial society. Mind you I do have one on the roof of my shed, enough to keep a small battery charged but no more than that, I shall not be growing rich on the proceeds.

 

[Janne]

A sufficient number of solar panels to give back to the grid does take a certain amount of cash up front does it not? Solar panels are not exactly "off grid" in the traditional sense in that they are a highly technical product of industrial society. Mind you I do have one on the roof of my shed, enough to keep a small battery charged but no more than that, I shall not be growing rich on the proceeds.

And they only last a few years at 100% capacity, then it goes down.
Sure, it is possible to make money by selling to the grid, but I am not so sure about the overall profit if you calculate in the cost if buying the panels.

 

[Janne]

Toddy, the friends of yours that live in self built structures are what most people would call using some nasty names. They do not seem to contribute much moneywise to the society ( by paying income tax ) but they still use the tax funded benefits.

That is not the way to live. Essentially, I work 45 hours a week and pay taxes so they can life a free life.

 

[mrcharly]

I repeat. I have friends who live off-grid in the uk, in self-built structures.
They do contribute to society, they work. They also grow most of their own food. It is possible.

They ran a community of the type that Toddy suggested the OP contact, before buying their own land.

 

[brambles]

Have you read this thread?
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139438

Or, perhaps more pertinently, this one?

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85141

 

[dewi]

Living off the grid might seem appealing to you at 19, but ironically in the UK you need some form of start up cash to enable you to live off the grid. Buying a plot of land or something similar, setting up the necessary technology and generally supplementing what you can realistically grow/farm with goods from shops... its all going to cost money.

I took the opposite route when I was your age. I decided that the way forward was to earn a lot of money while I was young, work hard at developing businesses that would pay off later on and for the most part I succeeded. Problem is life got in the way, so a brain tumour, separation from a long term partner and effectively starting again has given me a different perspective. So new perspective, earn lots of money while I was approaching middle age, work hard at developing businesses that would pay off later on and again, I had some success. Life got in the way again, but this time just me not being happy. Money is great, but it took me 20 odd years of adult life to learn it wasn't the be all and end all of existence.

Sounds to me like you're fed up with working for employers and being tied to the urban environment... so why not look for a middle ground? Why not meet people like Dave Budd... he's a blacksmith who works with traditional methods, but still makes use of modern technology. He lives in both the natural world and the urban environment, balancing the two. Hamish (Dreadhead) is a leatherworker who works with traditional methods, but still makes use of modern technology. He lives in both the natural world and the urban environment.

See what I'm getting at? You don't need to go full on man of the woods to live a different type of life to the nine to five, but the thing those two gents have in common is they're both incredibly talented craftsmen. They've learnt their trade, adapted their trade to the modern world to make it viable and they enjoy a mixed lifestyle that (hopefully) they both find fulfilling.

It is one way, not the only way, to achieving something different. I spent time on a course with Dave Budd almost exactly a year ago and it changed my perspective... and a brief encounter with Hamish has changed my life almost entirely. Sounds all dramatic, but in some ways it is.

Rather than leap into the unknown and try to do it all at once, why not take some baby steps, see whether there is a craft you like from leather working to blacksmithing to basket weaving? See if you can make a living from a traditional craft and move away from the employer/employee relationship and be more self sufficient financially. If that is a success, maybe then consider moving into a rural area, renting a place and making a living just from your craft. And if thats successful, maybe find a plot of land or a woodland somewhere that you can be the caretaker of, and use your craft to be self sufficient and live off the grid?

It's not running off into the wilds instantly and it will take some time, but time well spent now while you have youth, fitness and more importantly enthusiasm on your side will pay off in the long run.

 

[artschool]

i dont understand why someone would want to live outside of society and then come knocking when they need healthcare etc.

totally defeats the purpose and is akin to camping in your parents garden knowing you can always come home for food and warmth should things get tough.

 

[dewi]

i dont understand why someone would want to live outside of society and then come knocking when they need healthcare etc.

Living off grid or with an alternative lifestyle to that of the majority in the UK doesn't mean you don't contribute. Many give back, and giving back to society doesn't have to mean financially... because if that was the criteria for using our healthcare service, I can think of many people who live within society who don't live off the grid who shouldn't be knocking on that healthcare door.

Society shouldn't really be measured by finance, its more than that. It takes all sorts... I've known people with no money who give a lot to society and people with oodles of money who give nothing to society (and that includes financially).

To clarify, I'm excluding people with severe disabilities that make it impossible to physically or mentally get involved.

 

[santaman2000]

......If you haven't got this Winter's crops growing by now, they won't be any good in time to store. If you can't store, then you need fresh, day in day out. You need to know the land, what wild crops you can actually eat, and where they grew in Summer so that you can maybe forage roots in Winter….pity that foraging will likely expend more energy than you'll gain from them though….energy balance becomes crucial. So you need money to buy the staples of your diet, or at least some of them.....

In a nutshell, you just trade the exasperations of a contemporary job for the exasperations of a homesteader.

 

[santaman2000]

.....We're fortunate that doctors and hospitals and prescriptions don't cost a halfpenny at point of use here. Eye tests are free but Dentists cost money, even with huge NHS discounts….and toothache is a blight and a misery and all too easy.....

We don't have any such discounts here for dentistry (some of the dental insurance companies negotiate some discounts but their value is debatable) That said, the price we pay for dental work depends on just how vain you are. Advanced dentistry such as orthodontics, implants, bridges, crowns, etc. are expensive indeed. Over the last 15 years ago I paid over $1000 each, out of pocket (after my 50% insurance claims) for numerous crowns and over $3000 for an implant.

However basic dentistry; i.e. pulling bad teeth and eventually replacing them with dentures, is cheap. Only about $30 to $50 per tooth to pull and a few $hundred for old fashioned dentures (all at full price without insurance or discounts, less with either)

 

[nuggets]

Most everything we `purchase `in the UK has a tax on it that goes to pay for health care etc . so yea he has contributed to the (his)
health care system !!

 

[Janne]

I have frieds too that live off grid in Sweden. They have done it since the early 1970's, they were part of the Swedish back-to-the-roots movement. Organic farmers before the expression organic was minted.
They have the best beef I have ever eaten.

But they sell their produce, make money so they can but what they can not make themselves.

I think the OP needs to clarify in what extent he wants to free himself from society.

 

[Janne]

We don't have any such discounts here for dentistry (some of the dental insurance companies negotiate some discounts but their value is debatable) That said, the price we pay for dental work depends on just how vain you are. Advanced dentistry such as orthodontics, implants, bridges, crowns, etc. are expensive indeed. Over the last 15 years ago I paid over $1000 each, out of pocket (after my 50% insurance claims) for numerous crowns and over $3000 for an implant.

However basic dentistry; i.e. pulling bad teeth and eventually replacing them with dentures, is cheap. Only about $30 to $50 per tooth to pull and a few $hundred for old fashioned dentures (all at full price without insurance or discounts, less with either)

Off topic:
UK has two dental and medical systems. The state ( tax) funded NHS and the Private insurance or self funded private care.
The difference is of course huge, but the NHS provides "adequate" treatment.

So a crown is about $2000 in your area? I charge $1000 for self pay patients!
So if you need one or more, the dufference will pay for a nice holiday here!

But we are a bit more expensive for extractions. From $150.

Implants ( another great Swedish invention, besides the More knives and Trangia!) are about the same.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Oh, is now about a good time to mention the campaigns for a universal income?

J

 

[dewi]

Oh, is now about a good time to mention the campaigns for a universal income?

J

I reckon it could be an eye-opener to those who don't know about it, but the rejection in Switzerland and the meager amount suggested here in the UK, not sure even if there was consensus on its introduction whether it would make a lot of difference to be honest

It's a good idea and removes so much red tape and bureaucracy that it makes sense economically. Downside for the powers that be is that if it were properly implemented, it removes the need to be treated like rubbish by the corporate elite... and we can't be having that... its just not British as they say! :/

 

[Janne]

That idea sounds very much like a small step towards communism.

I reality we (in Europe) already have it. Everybody is more or less guaranteed a minimum income though our welfare systems .

(Caveat- whatever I write, the handicapped and OAP's should be favoured)

 

[dewi]

Remove welfare bureaucracy and the burden of tax collecting from the low incomes, you save more money than you spend.

Whether it bears any resemblance to communism we could debate all day, but the present system is weighted towards the rich and relies on a trickle down that will never happen.

The disabled and the old wouldn't need a caveat. They'd equally benefit, and arguably it would free up the able bodied to allow for more flexible care of the elderly and disabled. Further reducing the need for government intervention.

It is weird that we live in a society that forgive large corporates for not paying billions in taxes that could help the system, but demonise and penalise the people if they don't fill an official form in correctly.