Comparing Cooking Fuels

[Alan De Enfield]

It'd be interesting to see how meths compares to the above. I've always favoured my trangia stove owing to it's simplicity and reliability. Have also tried hexi/esbit (is there a difference between hexi/esbit tabs?) and have struggled to get a boil from one tab on half a pint of water. It's quite possible that this issue is down to the operator not doing enough to deflect the wind!

I have never 'used' meths so cannot comment, but I'll do some research on its Btu's etc.

I have the same issues with Hexy - 1/2 pint is 280ml and one tablet does not seem to get that to a boil, so it looks like, to get comparable figures it would take 4 hexy tabs to boil 1 litre (as per the gas test). It maybe that a percentage of the heat of one hexy tab is used to heat the pan, with the balance heating the water (I know that it all goes to heat the pan which then heats the water, but hopefully you know what I mean), once the pan is hot then subsequent tabs would pretty much be 100% heating the water, so maybe 3 tabs would boil 1 litre ?#

Hmmm - not explaining it very well am I !!

 

[Insel Affen]

I have never 'used' meths so cannot comment, but I'll do some research on its Btu's etc.

I have the same issues with Hexy - 1/2 pint is 280ml and one tablet does not seem to get that to a boil, so it looks like, to get comparable figures it would take 4 hexy tabs to boil 1 litre (as per the gas test). It maybe that a percentage of the heat of one hexy tab is used to heat the pan, with the balance heating the water (I know that it all goes to heat the pan which then heats the water, but hopefully you know what I mean), once the pan is hot then subsequent tabs would pretty much be 100% heating the water, so maybe 3 tabs would boil 1 litre ?#

Hmmm - not explaining it very well am I !!

I was always told we should only be using one tablet per mug of water (re supply was every 48 hrs), so you should have enough to last you and you take the brew from the boil in the bag water. Hexi has always boiled it enough for me. Saying that, I've not really used Hexi since basic training in '94/'95 as as soon as you're out of training you move to gas (as it's cleaner) ha ha.

 

[Buckshot]

Is there also the question of converting the heat output into warming the water?
How much of the heat is wasted both from going sideways rather than up to the pot and an excess of heat at one point in time.
What i mean is there must be a maximum amount of heat a steel/ titanium etc pot can accept and transfer to the water per second. therefore it doesn't matter what the potential output of the stove is above that level, any extra heat produced is wasted.

 

[Alan De Enfield]

According to Trangia Sweden :

One filling (approx. 2/3rds of its height height) will burn in approx. 25 min. Boils 1 litre of water in 10 min (varies according to weather and quality of fuel). Allow generally 1.0 litre methylated spirits for cooking for 2 people per week. Effect: 1000 w/ 3500 btu.

So it would appear that the boil time for 1 litre, utilising of 1/3rd of a fill is approx. 10 minutes.
Without knowing what 1/3 of a fill equates to it is difficult to calculate the efficiency of meths.

Further research indicates that folks are using between 20 and 30 ml to boil 500ml of water so, say 50ml for a litre.
Meths weight 0.7 grams per ml.

So to boil 1 litre of water :
Uses 35 grams of meths, in 10 minutes or
Uses 15g of gas in 4 mins 30 seconds

Gas appears to be twice as efficient as meths in both time taken and quantity used (is that 4x more efficient then ?)

I guess it all boils down (see what I did there !!) to which model of Trangia you are using (I believe the figures used are for the small 'bottom of a coke can' sized thing)

Edit to add - found after posting :

I found an Australian website that did an in depth review of Trangia in 2001 - he found he used 32g per litre of water (so not dissimilar to the above 35g)
His conclusions and pros & cons :

Conclusions:
If you want the fastest boil times, lightest weight, best fuel efficiency, and are not worried about paying higher running costs choose an Gas MSR or equivalent. If you want a stove that is the cheapest to run, maintenance-free, and safe to use, choose a metho stove like the Trangia.


6. Pros and cons of metho as a fuel
Advantages of metho

• Very cheap and readily available
• Comes in recyclable plastic containers, not disposable metal canisters
• Is made from fermentation of sugars, so is a renewable resource
• Is environmentally friendly, burning to give only carbon dioxide and water
• Is a liquid, not a gas so its easy to see how much you have left
• Safer than other liquid fuels - no dangerous flare ups
• Will burn at cold temperatures and high altitude - although somewhat slower
• Metho burners are maintenance free since they contain no moving parts and no small jets which can get blocked
• Metho burners are incredibly reliable
• Metho burners are very quiet - almost silent
• Spare metho makes a handy solvent around the house

Disadvantages of metho

• Metho (ethanol) has a lower heat output per weight of fuel than some other fuels.
• Takes longer to boil water than some other fuels. (About twice as long as gas)
• May not be available in some countries or states because of alcohol restrictions.
• Can generally only be bought in 1 litre quantities, so if you have to fly to the start of a walk and need to purchase your fuel there, you may have to buy more then you need.

 

[reddave]

feel free to analyze to your hearts content
http://zenstoves.net/StoveSystems.htm

 

[Alan De Enfield]

feel free to analyze to your hearts content
http://zenstoves.net/StoveSystems.htm

Wow - that'll keep me going for a few hours.
Thanks.

 

[Hammock_man]

A few years ago my daughter did a project for school science looking at the weight of a wind shield to the cost of fuel. Hands down from the go it was shown that a wind shield pays for itsself after only a couple of brews. Given the thread has wandered a bit, I think the weight of the windsheld must be included. Quoteing 2gms for an popcan meths stove or 15gms for a gas burner is not the whole truth.

That being said I like the idea that personnel preferences are being backed up with solid numbers. It has been a good while since I have used a gas stove thinking it adds too much to the price of a cuppa...... looks like I may have it wrong.

 

[Alan De Enfield]

...........looking at the weight of a wind shield.............

Interestingly enough I used a windshield ( a folding multi-plate stainless steel thing weighing 123 grams) with the Gel-Fuel cans, however the change over to a gas stove mounted on the top of the gas cartridge meant that the wind shield was not high enough. After Christmas I 'manufactured' a DIY wind shield from the huge 'foil tray' used to cook the Turkey in. The weight of my newly fabricated windshield is 10 grams, wraps 75% of the way around the stove and stand 12" high.

The issue with a windshield around a gas stove / cartridge is the reflected heat can cause the gas to heat up, build up the pressure and if not monitored carefully can result in explosion.
One of the downsides of gas.

 

[Wander]

Yes, interesting reading.

Like most here I have a mixture of stoves - a gas stove, a meths stove, a folding fire box, and the ground.

What I take depends on a lot of things. Where I'm going, what I'm doing, and...whimsy.
Sometimes I just want the romanticism and escapism of an actual wood fire, and practicality be damned. Sometimes though, I may be walking around a nature reserve and that just isn't possible, so I might take a meths stove. But I might be inside a bird hide and a meths stove will stink the place out, so I take a gas stove.
All those things.
The truth is, whenever I take a gas stove (and when I do it's always for convenience) I always come away feeling like I've 'cheated'. I can't quantify that, so I won't.
It will depend. Like I say, if I'm at the nature reserve then what I use for making a brew is secondary to why I'm there, so that compromise is acceptable.
But sometimes one is out solely to be out - to hear the wind in the trees, to see the purple hills on the horizon, to feel the wind on your face, to feel the bones beneath your skin. To sit under your favourite tree for an hour or so and just be there. And at that times a gas stove doesn't quite do it justice.
I'm pretty sure we'd all agree with that.
So power times and ratios are just one small part of what makes the most efficient stove when out and about.

 

[Tengu]

I am bone idle and like to car camp, so I have a kitchen box with options.

A Good variety of stoves. (I can buy a can of gas cheap at a car boot and know I have a stove to fit.)
A box of hexi
A folding wood stove
A folding BBQ

 

[Alan De Enfield]

I am bone idle and like to car camp, so I have a kitchen box with options.

A Good variety of stoves. (I can buy a can of gas cheap at a car boot and know I have a stove to fit.)
A box of hexi
A folding wood stove
A folding BBQ

Wot' - no meths stove and no petrol stove - you really are limiting your options

 

[MikeLA]

All nice ! But I do love me Hexi
With mug and lid not bothered on the wait plus being no empty fuel canister to carry home.
Choice for choice this is the one I always go for even when I own others

 

[Hammock_man]

Can not stand the smell of hexi but it does not bother Kim so we still use it! First choice is meths for me and I also tend to think of gas as cheating.
This thread seems to have wandered a bit from the OP's calorie chart, hope they are cool with it. (see what I did there?)

 

[Allans865]

I only use 2 types of cookers these days...

The Esbit solid fuel cooker for bushcrafty type stuff, and the MSR Micro Rocket for hillwalking/backpacking.

The Esbit/hexi blocks are always good to have when bushcrafting to help get a fire going too when conditions are less than favourable, and nothing beats the smell of hexi when getting a brew going in the woods.

The MSR is by far the best of the two for speed in boiling water/heating food, and is lighter if trying to keep the ounces down when hillwalking/backpacking long distances.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[Broch]

I only use 2 types of cookers these days...

The Esbit solid fuel cooker for bushcrafty type stuff, and the MSR Micro Rocket for hillwalking/backpacking.

The Esbit/hexi blocks are always good to have when bushcrafting to help get a fire going too when conditions are less than favourable, and nothing beats the smell of hexi when getting a brew going in the woods.

The MSR is by far the best of the two for speed in boiling water/heating food, and is lighter if trying to keep the ounces down when hillwalking/backpacking long distances.

Like Hammock-man I've been testing the gel cans and comparing with other options (see the other thread running but summary below). I don't have a gas canister at the moment so couldn't test the mini burner like yours - I'll have to test that another day. However, on top of Glyder Fawr camped by Lyn Cwn in February at -15C I'll stick to my petrol MSR . I confess I've never tried my new gas burner in those conditions so if anyone else has please enlighten me.

Results for 500ml of water from 3 deg C to full boil:
Gel 20 minutes
Woodgas stove 9 minutes
MSR petrol 3 minutes 10 seconds

 

[Allans865]

Like Hammock-man I've been testing the gel cans and comparing with other options (see the other thread running but summary below). I don't have a gas canister at the moment so couldn't test the mini burner like yours - I'll have to test that another day. However, on top of Glyder Fawr camped by Lyn Cwn in February at -15C I'll stick to my petrol MSR . I confess I've never tried my new gas burner in those conditions so if anyone else has please enlighten me.

Results for 500ml of water from 3 deg C to full boil:
Gel 20 minutes
Woodgas stove 9 minutes
MSR petrol 3 minutes 10 seconds

I tend to be a bit of a fair weather hillwalker these days so the gas MSR does fine, but should I venture up into the mountains in the winter I would absolutely take a petrol cooker like yours.

Cheers,
Allan

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[Tonyuk]

I couldn't tell you have much btu's it puts out by i'm a fan of chaffing fuel. I've found it gives very good results when its taken out of its tin and put in something like a large tealight base. I believe there's water added to the fuel to keep it from burning too hot, since just after you light the fuel it seems to burn with a very 'wet' flame for about a minute, then dries up. i timed it against a few other fuels here;

https://bushcraftuk.com/community/index.php?threads/canteen-brew-cooking-kits-fuels.140692/

In terms of fuels i use i'd say petrol (panel wipe) for any real cooking, gas for heating up boil in the bags and for brews, and the chafing fuel/hexy/alcohol burner etc.. for brews and a bit of food for just a few days out.

If i can have a fire then i normally make a small-ish one, i dont normally cook over an open flame to any great extent other than with a kettle and aluminium billy.

 

[KenThis]

I like using one of my wood/woodgas stoves when possible. I don't like to make a fire directly on the ground. When I know dry wood will be an issue I take a small bag of wooden cat litter pellets. Or sometimes take my trangia. I can't abide meths so use EkoFuel Bio-ethanol which is fine for me. But then I either car camp or am only out for the day.

 

[Janne]

feel free to analyze to your hearts content
http://zenstoves.net/StoveSystems.htm

Excellent link.
But I have been scratching my head over the claim that Alcohol does not make the pot dirty?

I have been using the Trangia system for almost 50 years ( with dad in the beginning) using various alcohol fuels, and the only think I /we always hated is the fact that the outside of the pan gets coveted in oily, greasy soot that is a pig to temove when in nature.

Some of the ‘facts’ arealso not entirely true.

That makes me wonder......

 

[Robson Valley]

Wonderful link. Bookmarked that one for an entertaining read.

Each winter (Oct - Apr), I burn an average of 10,000 lbs of what you call cat littler wood pellets. 5 tons of it.
Super clean fuel with a very good heat yield for the money.