Coarse grinding stone?

[Crank Cuffin]

Hi All,
I have a 1000/6000 combi Japanese water stone that I use for sharpening the Mora knives that I use with my scout troop.
Sometimes I need to remove more metal and need something coarser than 1000 to get the bevel de-knicked!
Could anyone recommend a stone or another method to enable me to do this please?
I have a limited budget - up to £25
I have tried wet and dry paper but seem to remove all the grit in a couple of passes!
Thanks

 

[HillBill]

Oil stones. Use the oil stone, then finish on the waterstone (not that you really need to)

 

[Crank Cuffin]

Can you recommend a goodun!

 

[HillBill]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/4004...1=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108&ff19=0

 

[Macaroon]

Get yourself one of those four-sided diamond block sharpeners, come in a plastic holder which sits well on a bench or lap and you pull the four-sided block out of it and turn it until you have the face you need upwards.
They're labelled 200#, 300# 400# 600#, and sold on the bay, B&Q and all sorts of tool places.

The coarser sides will remove metal quickly, the smoother ones are really very good when worn a bit and not quite so vicious. I've been using mine for more than five years now and it's still great, and you'll get one well within your budget.

I use some water with mine, but you need to wash/rinse it after use and leave it to dry properly otherwise the bonding medium gets a bit unstable,but I've never had a problem. I hope this helps...

 

[HillBill]

Macs suggestion is good too. Though i tend to use diamond to sharpen the more modern stainless steels.

 

[Macaroon]

Macs suggestion is good too. Though i tend to use diamond to sharpen the more modern stainless steels.

Yep, I only turn to the diamond block if I need to refurb a blade or re-profile something or get a lot of metal off quick to get a chip out; usually it's the strop; a little and often with a decent strop takes care of the day-to-day honing if the blade is a decent one.

 

[Robson Valley]

A sharp edge in a very bright light should return no reflection, in theory, it has no surface.
When bits of that edge get crumpled, they will reflect light as what I call "sparks."
It is up to you, with some experience (it's only a chunk of steel, OK?) to decide what grit
size will effectively repair the apparent damage.

Have you decided what the total included bevel angle needs to be for service (meat, wood turning bowls, batoning logs, etc)?
I claim to be no more than competent. I use TI bevels from 12* to 60*
Papers are cheap. Kit yourself out with a few aka "Scary Sharp" system and go to it. There's some experimentation for you to do.
I am a wood carver. I use the tools of the Pacific Northwest = crooked knives and adzes.
They are just as easy to keep carving sharp as are my fine (Porsche) kitchen knives.

The trouble with all this crap is that you can't buy an edge. Every suggestion has a learning curve and you
will not weasel out of it, no matter which one you select.
Pick one, any one, and learn it.

 

[vestlenning]

The trouble with all this crap is that you can't buy an edge. Every suggestion has a learning curve and you will not weasel out of it, no matter which one you select.
Pick one, any one, and learn it.

Hear, hear!

 

[Crank Cuffin]

Thanks Macaroon and Hillbill. I have been eyeing those four sided diamond blocks - they might do the trick

 

[Crank Cuffin]

The trouble with all this crap is that you can't buy an edge. Every suggestion has a learning curve and you
will not weasel out of it, no matter which one you select.
Pick one, any one, and learn it.

I'm not altering the bevel just maintaining the bevel that the knife comes with.

I'm not trying to weasel out of anything! I have experimented, picked one and learnt it! I can maintain an edge on a knife with a water stone and strop!
I was just asking for recommendations as to which stone or system in other peoples experience would remove more metal to remove nicks.

 

[Crank Cuffin]

Hear, hear!

Thanks for your comment.

 

[Robson Valley]

Ah. OK. Weasel was for anyone hoping to read the magic method. Mythical, yes? As you say, and I agree, a waterstone and a strop is quite enough. As you say, you learned to use your kit for a quality result.

If and when I have hit a sand grain in dirty wood with an expensive Pfeil carving gouge (eg my 5/35), about all I can do is joint the entire edge to just barely beyond the damage and totally start over to reestablish the bevel. In that, I'll begin with 80 then 120, then 200 grit oil stones. In the middle, sandpapers. Near the end, the usual 1k and 4k waterstones then hone with CrOx/AlOx on a hard card surface on a flat stone base. Took me three tedious episodes to wise up to the fact that dirty woods are risky carving work. Memo to self: NEVER sand in the middle of carving.

Fool that I am, I pounded a 1" bench chisel nearly 25' in ceramic countertop tile mortar. Had to reveal the seams to totally gut the kitchen for a total makeover. Jointed the edge and worked with a 12" mill file to get that one back. The sole benefit for me is that once learned, the techniques can be applied to all sorts of edges.

 

[demographic]

Those four sided diamond things you can buy from the gardening section of B&Q are pretty good. Been using one of those on my carpentry tools for a good few years now and as long as I rinse then dry them off after use (just the same as DMT recommends for theirs) they last well.
Leave them covered in wet, ground steel particles and they degrade.

Oh and *** don't use spit on them. Seems that every once in a while I lend one to some lazy minger on site who can't be trashed walking the 20 yards to get a cup of water.
I don't want spit on my diamond hone, its just skanky. Plus anyone lazy enough to do that most likely won't rinse and dry them either.

I never never lend those people anything else again.

Mind, I have just recently had use of a Tormek for sharpening a load of chisels that I was given. It took longer to set the chisel on the guide thing than to do the grinding in most cases.
Still that's a 700 quid tool that I can't afford.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Another vote for the diamond stones, although there are other shapes than the four sided ones. I had a set of three that were about two inches wide by five long in 400, 220 and 180 grit. The diamond does not stay on as well as it does with DMT products, but it works.

For coarse sandpaper, I agree that the wet and dry tends to shed grit fast. I bought some 80 grit wet and dry, wanted to use if for shaping G10 handle material, and could not believe how fast it shed the grit. HOWEVER, there are other abrasive papers and clothes that are better. When I have a plane iron, or bench chisels that are in a very bad way, I use 120grit premium resin bonded sandpaper, like the Sandblaster stuff sold in B&Q. Both 3M and Norton do similar products. I use it dry and it works well. Doesn't last forever, but much better than wet and dry. There are also a number of resin bonded abrasives for use with sanding machines which are worth a look. Some folk use the PSA (pressure sensitive adhesive backed) paper to good effect.

Best of luck