Cheap fuel

[Badger90]

23 opps, i was getting that on my 19J, it is nearer 30mpg, but tbh i don't monitor it that much and i haven't noticed a change in fuel consumption.

The 19J engines use the CAV lucas pump which isn't hardy enough for running the thicker oil, whereas the Bosch ones on 200Tdi's are alot better suited.

As for additives etc, a regular change of fuel filter ( the oil drags the crap from the tank and lines through more ) and new glow plugs every 6 months works for me.

I will add that i have in the past run 100% veg oil but now i usually mix a 70/30 oil/diesel and run it like that, smells pretty dire but does the job

 

[Badger90]

Do you think I could run my Optimus on the stuff?

I couldn't say, most Landy engines are simple ( pre TD5's etc ) so it's kept simple. A diesel compress's the fuel/air mixture to produce a combustion and with these engines you have a tank>lift pump>filter>injection pump> cylinder with no electric do dahs to upset it, it's a mechanical network. Other than the starter motor, i have 2 wires on my engine, 1 is the temp sensor for the water and the other is the stop solenoid cable on the injection pump ( nearly forgot the oil level cable as well , so thats 3 ) and if i really wanted, i could remove all 3 and still run the engine.

Newer engines have all sorts of electrics to monitor and produce better mpg and carbon emissions and to make them ' better ' at what they do, but the downside is your limited in what you can do with it

 

[mrcharly]

The 19J engines use the CAV lucas pump which isn't hardy enough for running the thicker oil, whereas the Bosch ones on 200Tdi's are alot better suited.

It isn't a question of 'hardy', it's the design. The Lucas pump uses the fuel as a lubricant on its main shaft, and neither SVO or 100% biodiesel are thin enough to work until they warm up.

If you want simple, I have a 2-pot Lister on a narrowboat. In theory it can be hand-cranked.

 

[MartiniDave]

Ooooh! 2 pot lister, lovely thing to listen to me thinks.

 

[Badger90]

It isn't a question of 'hardy', it's the design. The Lucas pump uses the fuel as a lubricant on its main shaft, and neither SVO or 100% biodiesel are thin enough to work until they warm up.

If you want simple, I have a 2-pot Lister on a narrowboat. In theory it can be hand-cranked.

It shall be never said that i don't learn something new everyday

 

[Badger90]

It can be said that this is a damn fine idea, i've just ordered 40litres of Veg oil from Tesco direct, to be delivered on friday, the cost is slightly more than 97p a litre but it beats driving to the local supermarket to get it

 

[EdS]

just be careful wit ha 200TDi as it is a direct injection so no swirl pots to mix the fuel air mixture -- the viscosity of the veg oil can result in poor spray pattern with unburnt oil gumming the piston ring. As can cld starting on veg oil.

When I replaced my injectors on a 300TDi there was a lot of oil "gunk" on them.

 

[Robbi]

can anyone tell me if a Suzuki Grand Vitara can run on these veg oils ? i've looked on the net but can't seem to find a straight yes or no

 

[EdS]

depends on which engine

 

[Robbi]

it's the Peorgeot 2.0TD

 

[EdS]

if I remember correctly thats the HDi engine -- so no.

You might get away with it for a while but its not worth risking it, unless its a shed and worth nothing. It'll work with a fuel heater system though

 

[Robbi]

what about a 50 / 50 mix ?

 

[EdS]

still risky - the 2.0l is a high pressure injection unit. Very fine nozzles and around 1300 bar pressure. Some people run 50/50 or 30/70 oil/diesel but you might get a year or 2 or a week.

A cheap preheater system to get the veg oil up to 60c plus would get it think enough.

 

[Robbi]

thanks for that, i'll look into a preheater this week i reckon.

 

[EdS]

a good start:

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php

 

[Badger90]

If your handy with tools etc, consider a dual tank set up, cost me apprx £75 for the tank and 12v valve, you can route the oil from the main tank across the block with copper pipe to help heat it up before entering the IP.

From what i've read in the past, unless you spend a decent amount of money, the pre heaters can't sustain the oil at a specific temperature past the IP, if it's a cold ambient temperature outside, no matter how hot you get the oil, as soon as it hits the cold ip, you lose the benefit.

 

[widu13]

I have used veg oil for many a year. Before the rules were changed (and veg oil was much cheaper) I was registered as a road fuel producer and paid fuel duty. As said there is no longer the need to do that. Any residue left in an engine is because the burn is not complete. Diesels are dirty engines anyway but there shouldn't be a sticky residue. The ideal is to heat the oil to between 60-80C but I never did. The oil needs to be thinned if a burn is not complete. Often when veg oil is first used it is common for the fuel filter to clog one or even two times. This is not from the veg oil but because the veg oil acts as a solvent for the bio organisms which grow in diesel. It id diesel gunk that blocks the filter, once gone you won't have to do it again.

My Pajero ran quite happily on a mix of 70% SVO to 30% diesel, in the cold I added 10% petrol (yes petrol). Petrol was used for thinning diesel before winter diesel was introduced.

My local cash and carry are now doing 20ltrs of cooking oil for £17- when I first started using it it was £7! BTW neighbours had reported me for after the tax relaxation for using veg oil (and biodiesel) which I kept in a 1500 ltr tank in the garage. HMCE came late one night, dipped the cars and the tank and declared it was all legal.

Do not attempt to use SVO in a modern diesel engine (PD or Common Rail) as the pressure are too high due to the viscosity of the SVO and at the least pump damage will follow, possibly with engine damage. DI's are ideal for use with SVO.

 

[EdS]

Direct Injection (DI) are not the best for SVO, older indirect injection with swirl pots are best.

Problem with the engine relies on a very fine spray pattern directly in to the piston cylinder - the viscousity on veg oil, even when thinned, means that your will get some thicker feeds than is ideal. Indirect on the other hand is much more tollerant as they have a realatives course spray pattern with the air and fuel mixture being mix in the swirl pot prior to been drawn into the cylinder.

That said my 300Tdi ran ok on up to 50% WVO depending on temperature. Note veg oil can knacker the injectors though - mind you I saved more than the cost or replacemetn injectors in a year.

 

[Large Sack]

I have to say chaps that I truly, truly admire your dexterity...

I wish I knew what a cambearing ridgeflange was...especially if it would save on the ridiculous fuel prices here in the UK.

I know that the pedal on the right makes it go and the pedal on the left makes it stop

God bless ingenuity

Cheers
Sack

 

[Whittler Kev]

Remember to change your washers in your pump as loads of people have found that chip shop oil perishes the pump seals so makes it VERY uneconomical in the long run (have a google for the test results - can't remember were I read it as it was last year I was looking in to it)