Catapult/slingshot hunting

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Xunil

Settler
Jan 21, 2006
671
3
55
North East UK
www.bladesmith.co.uk
... And what makes Hunter & the Black Widow chalk & cheese?

Power is (almost) academic unless it is controlled, although the Hunter does offer plenty of it - far more than a standard Black Widow.

The Hunter's greatest plus points (to me) are its tactility - the Black Widow is a mass-produced collection of plastic and metal and while it is undeniably efficient it lacks the tactile feel of the Hunter.

I also prefer the shooting action of the Hunter and it is far more compact than the Black Widow. You don't have to unfold various bits of it to use it either...

Unless you've done archery this is a little tough to explain but the Black Widow is more difficult to be accurate with (to most users) because the top of the forks sits higher in the hand. This increases torque in the grip hand, especially when combined with that wrist brace, which encourages a sudden downward movement of the gripping arm on release. It's ironic that the design feature meant to offer stability actually does the exact reverse for most people who use it because they don't know how to use it properly.

Because the forks of the Black Widow sit higher and because of the opposing force that the wrist brace brings to the mix, most people I know who shoot one suffer from a badly controlled 'loose' where the natural tendency for the hand holding the catapult is to dip suddenly. The only way to counteract this is to use a relaxed grip, lock the arm and make sure your arm doesn't move on release, and then follow the shot through by remaining as motionless as possible for a few moments after release. Anyone who has tried archery will know what I mean.

With the Hunter you grip it in such a way that these forces are much less evident and it is easier to get a cleaner loose and a more controlled shot as a result.

If we use guns as another example, the closer the centre of the barrel your telescopic sight is the easier it is to zero and the less margin of error or adjustment required over distance. It can also help reduce the effects of paralax bt that's something else entirely...

:rolleyes:

With a longbow, you shoot the arrow off the hand.

With a competition target bow you (usually) shoot the arrow from a rest which is mounted in a much higher position, and which requires some adjustment. Take a look at these YouTube videos of how the Hunter should be held, which is where most people go wrong with it since they automatically try to hold and shoot it in a 'fist' grip like we all did when we were kids and that just introduces instability and power loss.

Broadly similar issues need to be addressed to be accurate with either the Hunter or the Black Widow.

What I would say is that if you have a Black Widow you can either choose to practice with it to become accurate (taking the above into account) or you can opt to jump ship and get a Hunter or similar. You don't have to change your kit - you just have to learn how to use what you have.

As I say, I jumped ship and I'm as happy as a pig in a wallow as a result. My wayward uncle who is well into his seventies (and who is largely responsible for getting me into hunting, shooting, fishing, trapping, archery and so on) uses an old Milbro with modern bands to great effect. He can shoot ducks on the wing as they flight overhead onto his pond - he makes me sick :rolleyes:

Bottom line - you can learn to be accurate with any catapult through disciplined practice - after that, you can let personal preference or curiosity come into the mix, but it doesn't matter what you shoot, the point is to learn how to shoot it well.

Mass produced plastic and metal V hand made from (usually) warm to the touch, mostly natural materials with more powerful bands as standard.

Chalk and cheese...
 
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paul1969

Member
Dec 13, 2010
16
0
Birmingham
Big thanks to Xunil for the informative & interesting post - superb. I must admit tho when I first looked at the Hunter's size and how basic it looks (which I realy like) I did wonder why so many rate them. But once I read reviews, Youtube and reading Xunil post I can clearly see why.
 

Raybennett

Banned
Mar 16, 2010
117
0
Biddulph staffs
Any bands will fit the diablo. I have the red power bands on. I've been told that square rubbers fit too and are powerful. There are also black bands available by an American company who's name eludes me now. I've also heard of but never seen converters to flat bands aswell.
 

Xunil

Settler
Jan 21, 2006
671
3
55
North East UK
www.bladesmith.co.uk
.... I think it's a real shame we can't also bow hunt over here...

Although I would love bowhunting to be legal in the UK (purely for selfish reasons) I am actually glad that it isn't.

We have trouble enough with pondlife nuggets taking pot-shots with crossbows at anything that moves - legalising bowhunting would, I fear, make this even more commonplace. I would love to be proven wrong on that though, but the issues with crossbow misuse gives any bowhunter a bad reputation to begin with and unless it was very well regulated we would see folks without the fundamental skills trying to drop a deer with either the wrong kit or at the wrong range.

I am very lucky in that I have bowhunted (and bowfished) extensively for all kinds of prey in North America and Canada, from small game and game birds through to deer of several species. I don't get trophy hunting at all - it just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me, and I take absolutely no pleasure in the kill, but I do enjoy the hunt itself and bowhunting (like catapult hunting) requires the individual to get the sneak on his/her prey by getting right up close and personal.

I shot competition recurve for a long time, then went on to compounds and then, ironically, I returned exactly where I started with longbows and wooden arrows. It really is something else to harvest a deer with a simple longbow and then use its sinew to back the next bow you make which, in turn, allows you to continue harvesting, and so the wheel spins round and round...

The longbow challenges me far, far more than any other bow I could shoot, and I enjoy shooting one more than other bows, so that's what I go with. Depending on my mood I will either shoot with a stick bow made from a sapling, or I also make some seriously fast reflex/deflex bamboo backed Ipe longbows that come close to matching recurve arrow speeds. The speed is academic though, unless you have developed to skill required to place your shot, which brings me neatly back to catapults...

:D

For broadly similar reasons I let my firearms certificate lapse several years ago, got rid of my rifles, and went back to air rifle hunting for rabbits and pigeons. It's soooooooooo much more challenging and many of the skills are a direct crossover from air rifles to catapults to bows.

Basically I have the utmost respect for any kind of hunting that demands stalking and fieldcraft and while I spent a lot of time with some incredibly accurate guns over long range (which I openly admit I enjoyed) I would far rather be up close and personal which puts an entirely different slant on things. Hide and blind shooting aren't hunting as far as I am concerned, although I accept that they have their place in the scheme of things.

Catapults offer the closest simulation to small game bowhunting you will ever enjoy - with a slight modification I also use mine in the summer to launch a fishing arrow for mullet at the end of a small jetty near Stranraer, but that's strictly between us and another story entirely...

:D

I would go so far as to say that catapult hunting offers an ideal training ground (as well as being very productive in its own right) for any archer who intends bowhunting abroad. You stalk the same way, you draw and release in almost exactly the same way, and your effective range is (likely to be) the same or very similar. They are a great addition to your kit and also have the fringe benefit of bringing you up to muster for any bowhunting opportunities when abroad.

If you can hunt with a catapult you are one of the few rather than one of the many, because the kit can't do it for you - you have to do it with the kit :)
 

Raybennett

Banned
Mar 16, 2010
117
0
Biddulph staffs
Again xunil. Interesting and informative. I guess the catapult from my youth helped me with a bow, which into has and is helping with my catapult now. I'm very much from your school of thought with regards the close hunt. Although I don't sport hunt I do like to give a sporting chance to my quarry. And a very good way to practise stalking. And as you say good practise for bow hunting. Although after checking prices to bow hunt abroad. I don't hold much hope if ever going, atleast anytime soon.
 

Raybennett

Banned
Mar 16, 2010
117
0
Biddulph staffs
I'm definitley going to get a hunter. I've just hit a pigeon just below it's bill, and it just flew off then dropped 60ft away. I used 3/8 steel ball at 30ft. So it should have dropped it. The sun was behind the bird. But I was sure it was head or neck and not breast. When I got to it I had to put it out of it's misery and it's lower bill was caved in. And to be honest, it's really put me off using that black widow. If you can't drop it dead you shouldn't shoot anything. We can't have maimed animals running round can we? The bands were less than a week old also so they were nice and fresh. Anybody got a hunter, and uses it effectively?
 

peaks

Settler
May 16, 2009
722
5
Derbys
Hi,
Theres lots of info about cattys on here

http://melchiormenzel.de/

There are other catty sites out there too.

Fish's cattys are good but there are other alternatives including folk on here who make suberb cattys at reasonable cost and which are better (in my opinion) than a plywood frame.

Personally I find 9.5mm steel no good for hunting. I use 8 or 10m steel hex nuts, .44 lead balls, or 8m hex nuts filled with lead. You can get lots of hexi nuts at reasonable (cheap) prices from Screwfix. They are good out to 20 yards. Spherical ammo is better all together, but lead balls are not cheap, and going on the church roof is not recomended LOL !

Bells of Hythe do good catty stuff.

The Black Widow or Strike 9 or similar quality cattys are perfectly cabable of hunting with standard bands, but flats bands are so much better. They can be easily attached to a BW or similar cattys. Theraband gold is good, but in my experience doesn't last too long, theraband tubes are ok too. Flat latex or linatex is by far the best, but not easy to obtain here in the UK.

A lot of folks use the square rubber (see Bells) and have a lot of success with it- easy to obtain here in the UK. Not all square rubber you see is good stretchy stuff. The Bells stuff is ok.

Catty hunting is not all about power - suitable ammo, shot placement, keeping under 20 yards and lots and lots and lots of practice are all key. Please be aware of UK law with regard to hunting with a catty - causing undue suffering is an offence, it must be a clean kill.

Hope this helps
 

Xunil

Settler
Jan 21, 2006
671
3
55
North East UK
www.bladesmith.co.uk
It's worth remembering that .44 lead balls retain a lot more energy on impact than a 3/8 steel ball.

3/8 steel is, in fact, on the light side for hunting - half inch steel balls are heavy enough to retain more energy on impact and are, I feel, a much better close-range hunting ammo.

At around £15.00 per 100 the .44 lead shot aren't expensive and, with care, that amount should last you for a very, very long time. An effective backstop on your practice range should mean any losses will only occur if (read 'when') you miss any shots taken at game.

There's a guy on eBay offering 150 .44 calibre lead shot for £15.99 including delivery - can't argue with that price, especially if there are a couple of you who could perhaps split an order.
 
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Raybennett

Banned
Mar 16, 2010
117
0
Biddulph staffs
Yes it does. Some good info. I'm actually gutted about what happened today. I've had four pigeons in the last two weeks. That was the closest one. I don't feel like I can go hunting with me owd barnett now. I've been getting good with it to. But as you say. If you can't kill it humanely you can't hunt for it. Never mind law, morally as much as anything. Had anybody used an A+slingshot from America?
 

789987

Settler
Aug 8, 2010
554
0
here
so what is the code for an 8-10mm nut from screwfix then?!

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/17527/Bolts/Nuts/Hex-Nuts-BZP-M5-Pack-of-1000

close enough?


coupled with plan b i'll be eating lamb in no time!

cricket%20bat%20sq_17.gif



that was a joke by the way!
 

Xunil

Settler
Jan 21, 2006
671
3
55
North East UK
www.bladesmith.co.uk
You might feel differently if you go back to the range and build up your confidence in your current catapult using more suitable ammo.

Preferences aside the Black Widow can certainly deliver.

For the record I only ever shoot pigeons in the chest - your average pigeon has a head kill zone of around an inch, and that's a tough shot at any range. The chest gives you a kill zone up to around three times the size (depending on the angle the shot is taken at) which makes it a more practical point of aim. With practice you can narrow this down a bit to the crop area of the chest, between the good meat and the head, but the head itself is a tough shot to make.

Note: I am not encouraging folks to take an easier option - this is just a comment based on practicality. I apply the same logic/system to air rifle shooting for pigeons - unless there is absolutely no wind to take into account I only shoot them in the chest, in the back at the base of the neck or the crop area of the upper chest from the front. Rabbit head shots are easier (or at least, slightly less difficult) because the kill zone is slightly larger.

Just an opinion though - everyone does their own thing in their own way.
 

Raybennett

Banned
Mar 16, 2010
117
0
Biddulph staffs
For a backstop, I use my old storage boxes from jumbo stuffed with pillows. And use the White eye on the red elephant printed on the box. I think I'm going to bite the bullet and buy a hunter box set with the spare bands and lead shot. I was considering it anyway. The wrist brace makes it more than a pocket full. And also for reason xunil stated earlier in the thread. Perhaps look at some others. But £25 for a hand made tool of repute has to be worth it. 100 lead shot and spare bands for an extra £20 is ok too.
 

Raybennett

Banned
Mar 16, 2010
117
0
Biddulph staffs
Maybe I'm been to stringent in myself then. I guess I don't want to waste any meat or just injure anything. The last three were all back of head/neck shots. This one just looked like I'd punched him in the jaw. Poor thing!
 

peaks

Settler
May 16, 2009
722
5
Derbys
Hi
Apologies all.

a)Just to clarify I didn't mean 8mm nuts but M8 or M10 like these
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/19879/Bolts/Nuts/M10-Hex-Nut

b) Wasn't being critical re the shot on the pigeon. We've all been there.


Just conscious that hunting is a delicate subject and this thread might be best discussed under Fair Game if we are going to get into the technicalities of hunting?


The Black Widow is certainly capable of clean kills with good ammo using standard bands - don't be put off with your kit.

Cheers
 

Raybennett

Banned
Mar 16, 2010
117
0
Biddulph staffs
To be fair. It's starting to become essential, go for a stroll kit for me. Everything considered, it's my favourite meat supplier. Mainly because I'm an opportunist kind of bloke. At worst it's serious fun. And ideal bow practise too I'm told!
 

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