widu13
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I would just clarify Ged's post by pointing out that whilst a railway station is privately owned, it is still a public place as are train carriages.
^^^Exactly^^^
^^^Exactly^^^
Carrying meths & knife on public transport
- Thread starter woodymellor
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Normal police officers have juristiction on the railway, just as Btp have juristiction elsewhere.
If you are stopped in a public place (anywhere a section of the public have access whether by payment or otherwise) and have a knife or other weapon on you the burden of proof is on you to prove you have a reasonable excuse to having that item.
It is legal to carry a knife or firearm to/from a site but common sense must preveil. Most of the public aren't bushcrafters and the media around knives doesn't help our cause. A person who has a collection of knives would often be branded as having "a facination with weapons".
Take the knife, but take a stamped addressed jiffy bag also. If you are refused travel pop the knife in the post back to you. Have a sak in the bag too so your weekend won't be ruined if it is refused.
If you are stopped in a public place (anywhere a section of the public have access whether by payment or otherwise) and have a knife or other weapon on you the burden of proof is on you to prove you have a reasonable excuse to having that item.
It is legal to carry a knife or firearm to/from a site but common sense must preveil. Most of the public aren't bushcrafters and the media around knives doesn't help our cause. A person who has a collection of knives would often be branded as having "a facination with weapons".
Take the knife, but take a stamped addressed jiffy bag also. If you are refused travel pop the knife in the post back to you. Have a sak in the bag too so your weekend won't be ruined if it is refused.
Thanks for the replies guys,
I'm sure this is a recurring issue. I have to say that I agree with many points made both for and against taking them. My own thoughts were largely summed up by Ged, which is that carrying a knife etc. in the street is one thing, but train/coach companies tend to be more proscriptive than one suspects - and even if I can give a good reason for carrying it to an inquisitive official, it may well at the least make me late for the start of the course (meaning that I wouldn't be able to find the group and effectively miss the whole weekend).
So I'm not so much concerned about whether I have the right to carry them, I was more asking if anyone thought I'd encounter trouble. I'm tempted to follow the advice of many of you which is to just take it, well hidden.
But on the other hand, the truth is neither the stove or the knife is on the kit list (presuably knives are provided, I just fancied using my own!), so I think I might leave them as I don't want to run the risk of being delayed. If I was just off on a weekend away on my own, then I'd probably do it.
Thanks again,
Woody.
I'm sure this is a recurring issue. I have to say that I agree with many points made both for and against taking them. My own thoughts were largely summed up by Ged, which is that carrying a knife etc. in the street is one thing, but train/coach companies tend to be more proscriptive than one suspects - and even if I can give a good reason for carrying it to an inquisitive official, it may well at the least make me late for the start of the course (meaning that I wouldn't be able to find the group and effectively miss the whole weekend).
So I'm not so much concerned about whether I have the right to carry them, I was more asking if anyone thought I'd encounter trouble. I'm tempted to follow the advice of many of you which is to just take it, well hidden.
But on the other hand, the truth is neither the stove or the knife is on the kit list (presuably knives are provided, I just fancied using my own!), so I think I might leave them as I don't want to run the risk of being delayed. If I was just off on a weekend away on my own, then I'd probably do it.
Thanks again,
Woody.
Then things have changed since I was there. Back then the railways (BR at the time) didn't have any provision for checked baggage (I belive you call it hold baggage) whereas the airlines do. What's allowed in checked baggage where the passenger has no access to it while enroute is quite a bit more lenient than what's allowed in carry-on.
As far as railway travel is concerned this isn't a s139 issue. The SAK is still a knife and it is not permitted on the railways.
Of course you're right that baggage handling is very different by rail and by air, and I have carried knives in my airline checked-in baggage with no problems.
But yes things have changed a lot since the BR days, .
wear the knife proudly on your belt and if anyone questions it explain loudly that you are a bushcrafter like that ray mears guy off the telly. then demonstrate your skills by dispatching a nearby pigeon, frying it up in your meths cookset and offering a taste to the individual involved.
dont take no for an answer. only once they have experienced the delights of your simple fare will they be converted.
p.s. a squirrel will do if there are no available pigeons.
dont take no for an answer. only once they have experienced the delights of your simple fare will they be converted.
p.s. a squirrel will do if there are no available pigeons.
That's a great idea! Why did nobody come up with it before?
Now I think about it, instead of a backup SAK you could just take a squirrel with you. If and when challenged, pop out the squirrel, gut it on the spot, light the meths burner and cook it. You've explained the need for the knife AND the meths all in one, and cooked your dinner into the bargain!
I have never ever, been questioned about carrying anything "iffy"
I can remember a few years back now, sitting in the foyer of my further education college with a deactivated machine gun in a bag, at the same time as the police were called for some unspecified incident. Did they even notice me sitting in the foyer? No! And did I have a legitimate reason for having said deactivated weapon if they had singled me out. Yes! It was being used in a theatrical production.
The idea that carrying meths (other than boarding a plane with it) could be considered as "Iffy" is just incomprehensible to me. I go to the hardware, and buy a bottle of meths, and catch the bus home, where is the problem? It might be white spirit, it might be a small gas cylinder, you need to be able to transport these things and although I have seen these really silly stories where an ignorant bus driver has turned off somebody carrying a pot of paint, that is the exception not the rule.
I can remember a few years back now, sitting in the foyer of my further education college with a deactivated machine gun in a bag, at the same time as the police were called for some unspecified incident. Did they even notice me sitting in the foyer? No! And did I have a legitimate reason for having said deactivated weapon if they had singled me out. Yes! It was being used in a theatrical production.
The idea that carrying meths (other than boarding a plane with it) could be considered as "Iffy" is just incomprehensible to me. I go to the hardware, and buy a bottle of meths, and catch the bus home, where is the problem? It might be white spirit, it might be a small gas cylinder, you need to be able to transport these things and although I have seen these really silly stories where an ignorant bus driver has turned off somebody carrying a pot of paint, that is the exception not the rule.
You're obviously of angelic appearance.
I'm not, and I've more than once been asked by customs officers for example if I'm carrying "big knives" or "pistols". No kidding, "pistols". That was last September. I said to the officer "Are you out of your mind? That would get me a five stretch!" and she waved me on through without even searching the bike.
Definitely angelic. Maybe you need to get out more if you haven't seen kids out of their heads on sniffing butane. A year or two ago I bought a lighter from a 'pound shop' kind of place called Amber Value. It was really a great lighter for very little money so I went back a couple of weeks later, picked up five from the shelf and headed for the checkout. They refused to sell them to me, an old guy with grey hair, because the law says so. I felt really silly because I actually knew that but I'd completely forgotten and it just didn't occur to me that the shopkeeper would be breaking the law by selling me a few lighters.
People do the damndest things, and the rest of us have to put up with the consequences.
If it means that one or two kids don't die this weekend because we did nothing to protect them from themselves I think I'll gladly suffer the odd little inconvenience.
And after all, we on this forum are supposed to be the more resourceful sort, aren't we?
I used to work with a guy that got pulled every time - without exception - at Heathrow. He had no criminal record, was a professional accountant and was always smartly dressed - suit, tie etc. Even looked harmless. It got to the stage of telling his taxi drivers to arrive a half-hour late at Heathrow as he'd be a while! Conversely, the only time in the last 40 years I got stopped at customs was recently, when I got pulled over in the green channel and asked if I'd just got off the Jamaican flight. On answering in the negative I got waved through................
I really don't see the issue myself, surely the more the general public stop doing normal things in case it's percieved as bad the sooner we forfeit all our rights. I know I'm not the smartest guy out there but my approach is to just get on with things and see what happens. If you're not causing trouble or look like you're about to you should be alright.
You're obviously of angelic appearance.
Definitely angelic. Maybe you need to get out more if you haven't seen kids out of their heads on sniffing butane. A year or two ago I bought a lighter from a 'pound shop' kind of place called Amber Value. It was really a great lighter for very little money so I went back a couple of weeks later, picked up five from the shelf and headed for the checkout. They refused to sell them to me, an old guy with grey hair, because the law says so. I felt really silly because I actually knew that but I'd completely forgotten and it just didn't occur to me that the shopkeeper would be breaking the law by selling me a few lighters.
It must be me. The other day I was told at the supermarket checkout that I could not buy 3 packets of ibuprofen at once, but that was alright, the third packet could go through as a separate purchase from the rest of the shopping.
Later on today I will almost certainly be carrying something with a big blade and sharp on the bus in my rucksack, and I will wearing my "terrorist" camo smock as well. What's the bus driver going to do, empty out my rucksack and strip search me?
The more we stop doing things because of a vague apprehension of perception of wrong doing by ourselves and onlooking thickoes and ignorant officials the less free we are.
Eurostar allow legal carry knives to be carried on the person.
As I pointed out, I would still carry these things if I were not worried about being delayed. It's not the consequenses that bother me, just that I am pretty skint at the moment, I'm traveling in the cheapest way possible, and I've spent a lot of money on a course that I will miss if I do not arrive on time.
So although I completely agree with those of you who say we shouldn't stop doing these things through fear, it was more a practical question about people's experience and/or advice as to whether or not I might encounter problems.
My girlfriend works for a company that operate apartments for professionals staying over on business. She has been stopped more than once at a major train station with brand new (still in the packet) kitchen knives to fit out a knew apartment - this sort of thing has increased since 7/7. They didn't give her any real trouble over it, but it's just always made me cautious about what I carry when traveling on trains and coaches through central London.
I'm not sure that people who don't live in London (and no snobbery is meant by this) understand how safety conscious, or rather "terrorist conscious" major London transport routes can be. It's quite normal to see armed ploice strolling through Victoria with sub-machine guns. We've had to put up with decades of litter strewn platforms because we're not allowed bins in case an Irishman puts a bomb in it.
Now I'm not saying I'll be accused of being a terrorist or shot at by police! All I'm saying is I find this culture has bred a sort of 'zero tolerence' atmosphere, where a random bag search may well result in being detained, even if you have got a good reason.
So although I completely agree with those of you who say we shouldn't stop doing these things through fear, it was more a practical question about people's experience and/or advice as to whether or not I might encounter problems.
My girlfriend works for a company that operate apartments for professionals staying over on business. She has been stopped more than once at a major train station with brand new (still in the packet) kitchen knives to fit out a knew apartment - this sort of thing has increased since 7/7. They didn't give her any real trouble over it, but it's just always made me cautious about what I carry when traveling on trains and coaches through central London.
I'm not sure that people who don't live in London (and no snobbery is meant by this) understand how safety conscious, or rather "terrorist conscious" major London transport routes can be. It's quite normal to see armed ploice strolling through Victoria with sub-machine guns. We've had to put up with decades of litter strewn platforms because we're not allowed bins in case an Irishman puts a bomb in it.
Now I'm not saying I'll be accused of being a terrorist or shot at by police! All I'm saying is I find this culture has bred a sort of 'zero tolerence' atmosphere, where a random bag search may well result in being detained, even if you have got a good reason.
Well I am still here, having proved my point, got on two public transport buses with a zonking huge adze and a nasty looking 5 tined cultivator after walking down a busy (if wet) Leamington Parade with them slung over my shoulder. I had my doubts if I would be let on the bus with the cultivator given the potential for damaging inadvertent passengers with the length of the pole, but absolutely no problems. Anyway not a bad purchase £15 for the pair of them.
Bottom of a rucksack, what's the problem?
Its not like ambling about a show with it hanging off yer belt/climbing out of a car then going into a bikeshow with a bike helmet in your hand is it?
Its not like ambling about a show with it hanging off yer belt/climbing out of a car then going into a bikeshow with a bike helmet in your hand is it?
You should go to Poundstretcher or B&M for either eight or ten packs for a quid and I've bought three or four packs at a time without question. I've got a couple of hundred lighters in my end of world preps.
Not bad here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50-x-Ligh..._Smoking_LE&hash=item3f1111d3c5#ht_871wt_1168
By us lighters are not an issue, takes too long to get a hit but you do have a job buying refill canisters which is what the substance abusers really prefer, I think Tesco and Asda have stopped selling them, Tesco have for sure.
Not bad here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50-x-Ligh..._Smoking_LE&hash=item3f1111d3c5#ht_871wt_1168
By us lighters are not an issue, takes too long to get a hit but you do have a job buying refill canisters which is what the substance abusers really prefer, I think Tesco and Asda have stopped selling them, Tesco have for sure.
You're obviously of angelic appearance.
I'm not, and I've more than once been asked by customs officers for example if I'm carrying "big knives" or "pistols". No kidding, "pistols". That was last September. I said to the officer "Are you out of your mind? That would get me a five stretch!" and she waved me on through without even searching the bike.
Definitely angelic. Maybe you need to get out more if you haven't seen kids out of their heads on sniffing butane. A year or two ago I bought a lighter from a 'pound shop' kind of place called Amber Value. It was really a great lighter for very little money so I went back a couple of weeks later, picked up five from the shelf and headed for the checkout. They refused to sell them to me, an old guy with grey hair, because the law says so. I felt really silly because I actually knew that but I'd completely forgotten and it just didn't occur to me that the shopkeeper would be breaking the law by selling me a few lighters.
People do the damndest things, and the rest of us have to put up with the consequences.
If it means that one or two kids don't die this weekend because we did nothing to protect them from themselves I think I'll gladly suffer the odd little inconvenience.
And after all, we on this forum are supposed to be the more resourceful sort, aren't we?
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