Carinthia Defence 4 or Swedish army down filled winter bag?

[Phaestos]

While the thread title makes it look like im trying to choose between sleeping bags, im not. Well, I am, but not between those two. But at least with one of them...I'll start over.

1: I found this earlier today, and is it me, or is that the Carinthia defence 4?

www.fu-kit.com/product.php/475/military-down-filled-winter-sleeping-bag-swedish-army

2: Im looking to get a new cold weather bag as im beginning to suspect my british army arctic bag is either a) too old, or b) a copy. I feel the cold in it quite easily without my huge wool blanket. My choices so far are:
-Ray Mears 4 season golden eagle
-Carinthia Defence 4
-Snugpak Elite 5/Antarctica RE

They all seem fairly similar on price, weight and ability, and apart from the elite 5, they all have the wondrous centre zip. Suggestions?

 

[brambles]

1: I found this earlier today, and is it me, or is that the Carinthia defence 4?

It's not the Defence 4 , because it's a down bag and the D4 is a G-Loft synthetic fill. However, Carinthia also make a number of other sleeping bags including the Survival Down and Explorer Down and have made bags for a number of different nations military, so it could be one of theirs or a licensed copy of their design. As to your query, I have a Defence 4 and it's superb.

 

[welchyd1]

What about the Softie 9 mate fantastic sleeping bag for UK weather and much better weight and pack size.

 

[big_swede]

Go beyond green. Just get a decent down bag. Alpkits are good. So are roberts.pl and a host of other manufacturers. No way to beat down. I used caranthia in the army, rubbish really heavy as h3ll for what they are. Don't forget army kit is made by the lowest bidder, not the best quality.

 

[shovel reccy]

does your old bag have arctic on the lable. only asking as a lot of people are buying gs bags thinking they are arctic. plus issue bargs have a lot of space to warm up as the are genraly slept in with full kit plus rifle. atb paul.

While the thread title makes it look like im trying to choose between sleeping bags, im not. Well, I am, but not between those two. But at least with one of them...I'll start over.

1: I found this earlier today, and is it me, or is that the Carinthia defence 4?

www.fu-kit.com/product.php/475/military-down-filled-winter-sleeping-bag-swedish-army

2: Im looking to get a new cold weather bag as im beginning to suspect my british army arctic bag is either a) too old, or b) a copy. I feel the cold in it quite easily without my huge wool blanket. My choices so far are:
-Ray Mears 4 season golden eagle
-Carinthia Defence 4
-Snugpak Elite 5/Antarctica RE

They all seem fairly similar on price, weight and ability, and apart from the elite 5, they all have the wondrous centre zip. Suggestions?

 

[rg598]

As others have said, for that kind of money I would just go for a good sleeping bag. The ones you list are very heavy, and not particularly cheap. There is no such thing as a bushcraft sleeping bag. All modern manufacturers make proper sleeping bags that will fall in your budget and warmth range. Look at something like the North Face Snow Leopard. It's nothing special, I just happened to go to their website. Even so, it weighs less and costs less for similar insulation that the ones you listed. If you want to spend some more money, PHD makes some great stuff in the UK, or look at Western Mountaineering in the US.

 

[Phaestos]

What about the Softie 9 mate fantastic sleeping bag for UK weather and much better weight and pack size.

That does look good Dave. The price is far more reasonable as well. I might go a level up from the 9, but I'm really intrigued

Just get a decent down bag. Alpkits are good

I love Alpkit, but at their prices I think the RM Golden Eagle is just as good. That said, Alpkit get points on weight, while RM get points on availabilty

As others have said, for that kind of money I would just go for a good sleeping bag. The ones you list are very heavy, and not particularly cheap

I know there are alot of bags out there, and that's the issue really. There are almost too many, so deciding becomes a whole effort in itself. I'd rather not spend out of my pocket for something I really don't know is worth it. For weight, after carrying the Army Arctic bag for a while, anything would be better, and with a central zip, plus good temp rating, the RM bag seems grand. Then again, it is ruddy expensive. Down might be the way to go in the long run, although the worries about its problems with moisture are a concern. Snugpak seem to be winning out here so far. Its just so damn annoying theirs dont have central zips as standard!

 

[Greek1983]

If you have a Gore-tex bivy bag you don't need to worry about moisture, unless you want to go for a summer synthetic outer and down inner i.e Defence 1 + Explorer Down 1000, which is way above your budget.

As for the "Swedish Down bag", seems it's the previous model the Swedish Armed Forces, 'cos now they have a synthetic "combo system" again from Carinthia.

The Defence 4 in my opinion is maybe one of the best bags. Add a polycotton liner and off you go.

 

[Moosemap]

Which sleeping bag is the right for me? I guess this question has been posted more times than anybody here can remember and still, it is a very important question for everybody who wants to spend time out of the doors. I am working on that subject, too and after many years of using sleeping bags I still have not found what I am looking for. As canoeist, weight is not such a big concern, so I go for a more comfortable approach.

The sleeping bags with center zip, like the Defence 4, Defence 1 (which I like a lot, due to flexibility), RMs and some other army bags sound good, but the center zip is narrowing down the flexibility of use concerning different temperatures. Because if you want to ventilate, the cool air is always on top of you, for me not very comforting. You can always ventilate the foot area, but sometimes it is not enough. On the other hand, you will never get such a cozy feeling like being in a protecting cocoon like in such center zip bags...

Perhaps you would look at the Ajungilak Tyin Winter, the TNF Snowshoe is great but a little tight, you should move a size up for more comfort or you move to the already mentioned combo system, using a light down (or synthetic) bag inside a light synthetic bag.

At the moment I tend to a lightweight synthetic bag like the Nordisk Sarek LP in XL in combo with the Nordisk Laga HP, a rectangular down bag with 600 gr. filling. You can use both seperate or in combination and the weight is just a bit above that of a Defence 4 but rather more flexible. If you want to go down on weight and bulk, take a more lightweight down bag like some of the Yeti range with 300 gr or 400 gr. filling and combine it with a Defence 1 or Exporer 1 (the non-army version of the Defence 1). This combo is not so comfortable, but under 2 kg and warm well below freezing.

If there is a lot of condensation wetness, I would go for a synthetic system, like the Snugpak Warm Weather Jungle Bag and a Defence 1 in different sizes for better fit. It is astonishing how much warmer such a combination is due to the additional air cushion between the bags. And two small packages are easier to stuff in the bag than one large...

Kind regards,
Heinz

 

[Inky]

Somehow this subject never ceases to be interesting. I have owned a few of the bags mentioned and thought I would chip in. To cut a long story short, I started out with a british army arctic bag. It's very warm, roomy, I like a central zip if possible, and I spent many a clod night nice and toasty in it. But I got to thinking I would like something more refined, so I sold it and got a Woodlore Golden Eagle. Big mistake! It is just not worth it, it's as warm, a little lighter, but not so much to make a meaningful difference, not really any difference on bulk. Worst of all, because it is a bit over engineered, you end up with about four different pieces of bungee cord in your face.

I then went for a down bag (and this is my current set up). Because I like room and ease of getting out I went for a Nanok Comfort Down -10. It has zips on both sides so you never go crazy trying to find one to get out. You can open it from the bottom to stick your feet out if its warm. All in all it is a great 3 season bag (I sleep a little on the cold side and with a thermal top on you can go down to about 0 or -2 comfortably). When it gets really cold, I combine it with the army summer bag on the outside and put the two bags in a bivi bag (of course). I was nice and warm down to about -9 only 10 days or so ago.

In short, don't bother with the Woodlore, either get an army bag or check of the army type bag that Bison Bushcraft are doing, don't know anything about it but it looks good. Or go with some kind of down/synthetic two bag mix. The Nanok is excellent. Together with the army 'jungle' bag it still weighs less and takes up less space and is warmer than the arctic bag on its own. All IMHO of course!

 

[copper_head]

Matt I used to have the softie 12, its a great bag, very warm. Too warm in fact (even in conditions like Ribblehead), I sold it in the end as I just never used it enough. It was also huge, which might not be a problem at the minute but if you ever want to do some backpacking you'll really need to look at your pack size/weight.
I tend to use layering nowadays, e.g. I have a couple of bags a 3 season, a one season and a square bag for 'comfort' camping. In winter I put the one season inside the 3 season and if its really crazy cold I put a liner in there too. Its alot cheaper way of doing things and it gives alot of flexibility.

That said I can highly reccomend the snugpak bags, a softie 9 will see you fine in all but the deepest cold (in this country anyway). Think Tobias is selling some cheap at the minute, saw a sale thread pop up earlier.