Canister and white gas in the cold.

[BigMonster]

Hi guys. Just got myself a brand new shiny Primus Omnifuel II as I got tired of powders and ready meals from my MSR Reactor, time to do some proper cooking. Also wasn't very impressed when I had to bathe the canister in sub zero temps just to boil some water.

So two questions:
At what temps I will need to switch from Propane/Butane canisters (which I love for the convenience) to white gas (which is also good as I won't be carrying half empty cans). This stove can handle inverted cansiter/liquid feed. And I'm asking how cold the gas is stil performing decent without any special tricks.

What is average fule consumption in ml per hour when cooking and/or melting snow.


My new setup will come very handy this January in polish mountains where -15C can be expected.

Any input and advuce much appriciated.

 

[Trotsky]

Does the manual (if it came with one?) give any clue as to operating temperature range at all?

There's some information here you may find useful: http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/blog/ins-outs-canister-fuels/

 

[Limaed]

Quite a tricky question. I think if I'm working in the snow I would go for white gas and if not probably canister gas. I think gas starts to perform poorly when you get to around 0C and below whereas white gas works regardless. I've been on a few high altitude trips (tenting at 5500m) where the temp overnight drops to below -20C, here white gas is the only real option for me. I find it preferable to be able to check how much fuel I have left which is much easier with white gas and in very low temps I wouldn't want to risk not having a stove that works.
I read somewhere that paraffin/kerosene performs best of all but requires a bit of pre-heating. In Nepal expedition cooks use Chinese copies of the original Primus stoves. Might be worth thinking about how easy it is to get gas canisters also? Everywhere sells petrol although its not as clean as white gas and will clog your stove after a while.
Not sure if that helps answer your questions.

 

[SGL70]

Have a look here:
http://zenstoves.net/Fuels.htm

To each, his own....but I'd choose naphta/panel wipe/white gas/Aspen 4T regardless of season (I do love my Optimus 123)

 

[petrochemicals]

I do not know how much fuel you use when melting snow, but most take liquid fuel for the reason of quantity, a 1l sigg full of paraffin weighs under 1kg where as 700ml of gas weighs 650g i think, and the 1 litre of parraffin boils about twice as much. I think it takes about twice the fuel to melt and boil as compared to a straight boil.

As for the first point, liquid fuel is liquid fuel, and will preheat. Gas will preheat better at different temps, and aslong as theres pressure from the propane, you should be ok down to about -40c

 

[BigMonster]

The manual only gives consumption for canisters (70min on 230g).

Any opinions and data are wery welcome. 0C is my limit with gas as well, I read on the net that inverting the canister can push it to -15C. But I'm looking for a real life experience. When you need a consistent hot flame without fafing about with swapping canisters, hot baths etc.

Obtaining various canisters or premium white gas is not a problem so I can have a choice of fuel.

 

[petrochemicals]

The manual only gives consumption for canisters (70min on 230g).

Any opinions and data are wery welcome. 0C is my limit with gas as well, I read on the net that inverting the canister can push it to -15C. But I'm looking for a real life experience. When you need a consistent hot flame without fafing about with swapping canisters, hot baths etc.

Obtaining various canisters or premium white gas is not a problem so I can have a choice of fuel.

Real world experience of pure butaine is that it does not work without heating at 0c, isobutaine does and so does a butane propane mix.


http://bushwalkingnsw.org.au/clubsites/FAQ/FAQ_Efficiency.htm

You can calculate your breaking point, remember to add the cannister. And to boil snow you need to melt snow and boil water.

 

[Robson Valley]

Decades ago, I made the decision to go with gasoline, Coleman appliances in particular. Heavy, yes. Reliable, yes.
Easy parts & service, yes. Any and every temperature, yes.

I do have a butane cartridge stove that works well, sitting in a warm boot.
The real deal is that as the butane phase changes from liquid to gas, that sucks a lot of energy.
That chills the remaining liquid butane in the cartridge.
Running the little stove full throttle just makes things worse.

I did some BC coastal climbing with a guy who had a little kerosene stove (Primus?) some 40 years ago.
It was box-like with a horizontal fuel tank.
Awkward to light but the heat output was everything that you could imagine with big pots. Rocket engine.

 

[Jeeper]

From experience butane is not much good below 5°C it will burn but the heat output is low.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[Tonyuk]

Canisters running on a mix of butane and propane will burn better in the cold and any stove with a pre-heat tube that can run with the canister inverted will help massively. I always run a multi-fuel in the winter. My Coleman 533 is ran on panel wipe and has never failed to work in the cold, it takes a bit longer to get the genny warmed up but after that it works perfect. I was looking into the primus express spider but haven't bothered to get it.

Tonyuk

 

[pysen78]

I run my trangia gas burner at zero to -10 deg C, with no problems. Start with upright canister, then invert after a minute or so. It has happened on one or two occasions that it has given up a bit on a long boil when near empty, but since only a tablespoon of warm water in the concave bottom fixes that, and varm water (even lukewarm) is usually around at that point, I've not seen it as a big problem.

If you add a lot of windchill to that, I think you'd be worse off. I've had a problem with that when using upright canister stoves. I usually only camp in fair weather in the wintertime.

 

[Big G]

I run my trangia gas burner at zero to -10 deg C, with no problems. Start with upright canister, then invert after a minute or so. It has happened on one or two occasions that it has given up a bit on a long boil when near empty, but since only a tablespoon of warm water in the concave bottom fixes that, and varm water (even lukewarm) is usually around at that point, I've not seen it as a big problem.

If you add a lot of windchill to that, I think you'd be worse off. I've had a problem with that when using upright canister stoves. I usually only camp in fair weather in the wintertime.

Yep, that's what i do with my Go systems burner on my Trangia. I've not used it in minus temps yet, but on coldish mornings i've inverted the canister into liquid feed mode, and the pre-heater tube heats the gas up.

 

[BigMonster]

So it looks like the performance/hassle ratio gets really bad past the -10C mark. So for me it's canisters down to sub zeroes with a backup option of inverting for a liquid feed. And anything in the snow it's liquid fuels.

 

[Imagedude]

I've used my Optimus Vega (inverted gas stove) down to -18C with no issues. A 280g cannister (230 +50g free!) would last me 3 days if I was careful. I also managed to get 5 days out of a 450/500g canister so I'm quite sure that about 100/120g per day is sufficient. The stove if prone to flaring during lighing when the canister is inverted so that's yet another reason not to use it in or near your tent. Omnifuels work fine on gas, I've used one down to -12 despite having liquid fuel available. Be aware that the fuel filters are prone to clogging on the Omnifuel stoves. Take plenty of spare filters.

Optimus Vega/Caldera Cone hybrid in Finland. Temperature is about -14C

Stove outside tent with 500g cartridge. Note emergency supply of meths on the right of tent.

Using Omnifuel stoves with gas, Norway 2012

Omnifuels and Wayland.