Can you prescribe nature ?
- Thread starter Madriverrob
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As someone who has suffered with periods of severe depression and anxiety since they were in school I thought I'd give a few thoughts on this.
For me at least I agree that walking in nature is definitely something that improves mood and promotes feelings of well being.
But then again I am also a big believer in medication, counselling, sunshine, avoiding certain foods/drinks, being frank and open, plenty of sleep, talking, exercise, alone time, baking, craft, films and books.
These are all strategies that I have personally employed to help make myself feel better and that I have had differing amounts of success with.
I can remember very vividly the first time I managed to force myself to see a doctor as an undergraduate. The doctor told me it was nothing to worry about and that I needed to get more fresh air and exercise and gave me a weeks worth of sleeping tablets.....
I had a further 6 months of hell before I saw a doctor who seemed to believe me and actually tried to help me. This is unfortunately not an uncommon occurrence.
At my worst I was unable to leave my bed most days, seldom left my room let alone my house. It cost me a job, a relationship, a home and almost 2 years of my life. Looking back, with the best will in the world I would have been simply unable to follow that prescription, just the thought of 'having' to leave the house would have been crippling.
Part of me worries that stories like this in the BBC do as much harm as good. Yes it is fantastic to know that a long walk in the woods helps promote mental health, but I am concerned that it will also increase the stigma of mental heaalth problems. Will it suggest to people that 'depression' just means you haven't had a long enough walk in the woods. Or even that since walking in the woods is so good for mental health, then if you still suffer with depression it must be your own fault somehow. Please believe that for me at least a huge part of depression is feeling guilty for having depression, an irrational vicious circle that is not easy to counter..
I have previously alluded to how I don't have as much practical experience with bushcraft or wild camping than most because I don't get out as much as I would like. This is mainly because for the past 18 months I have been suffering with debilitating social anxiety. I have had panic attacks trying to go to the local shop and walking in the park at the end of my street. I can't leave the house without somone I know and trust. I'm petrified with the thought of meeting people whilst hiking by myself or coming across a landowner whilst wildcamping. Public confrontation is currently my worst nightmare. Although I am improving day on day and feel myself slowing getting better, I can't imagine what it would be like to be told I 'have' to go for a walk in the woods for an hour a day.
So please everyone go for long walks in the woods, and if you can take friends and family and/or tell them about the benefits of walking in the woods. I wish I was in a position to be able to take my own advice, soon I hope. But also please remember that this isn't always going to help everyone, it isn't always going to alleviate depression/anxiety and that we still need all the other therapies that can/do help.
For me at least I agree that walking in nature is definitely something that improves mood and promotes feelings of well being.
But then again I am also a big believer in medication, counselling, sunshine, avoiding certain foods/drinks, being frank and open, plenty of sleep, talking, exercise, alone time, baking, craft, films and books.
These are all strategies that I have personally employed to help make myself feel better and that I have had differing amounts of success with.
I can remember very vividly the first time I managed to force myself to see a doctor as an undergraduate. The doctor told me it was nothing to worry about and that I needed to get more fresh air and exercise and gave me a weeks worth of sleeping tablets.....
I had a further 6 months of hell before I saw a doctor who seemed to believe me and actually tried to help me. This is unfortunately not an uncommon occurrence.
At my worst I was unable to leave my bed most days, seldom left my room let alone my house. It cost me a job, a relationship, a home and almost 2 years of my life. Looking back, with the best will in the world I would have been simply unable to follow that prescription, just the thought of 'having' to leave the house would have been crippling.
Part of me worries that stories like this in the BBC do as much harm as good. Yes it is fantastic to know that a long walk in the woods helps promote mental health, but I am concerned that it will also increase the stigma of mental heaalth problems. Will it suggest to people that 'depression' just means you haven't had a long enough walk in the woods. Or even that since walking in the woods is so good for mental health, then if you still suffer with depression it must be your own fault somehow. Please believe that for me at least a huge part of depression is feeling guilty for having depression, an irrational vicious circle that is not easy to counter..
I have previously alluded to how I don't have as much practical experience with bushcraft or wild camping than most because I don't get out as much as I would like. This is mainly because for the past 18 months I have been suffering with debilitating social anxiety. I have had panic attacks trying to go to the local shop and walking in the park at the end of my street. I can't leave the house without somone I know and trust. I'm petrified with the thought of meeting people whilst hiking by myself or coming across a landowner whilst wildcamping. Public confrontation is currently my worst nightmare. Although I am improving day on day and feel myself slowing getting better, I can't imagine what it would be like to be told I 'have' to go for a walk in the woods for an hour a day.
So please everyone go for long walks in the woods, and if you can take friends and family and/or tell them about the benefits of walking in the woods. I wish I was in a position to be able to take my own advice, soon I hope. But also please remember that this isn't always going to help everyone, it isn't always going to alleviate depression/anxiety and that we still need all the other therapies that can/do help.
You want to get out more Ken
Being serious for a moment though, I've had a similar experience to you when I got memory loss. I was terrified initially of being out and about. The thoughts of coming face to face with someone, not knowing what they might say or do. It was not pleasant.
What helped me was going on a couple of one to one courses, learning some new skills whilst getting over my fear gradually. I found that if I explained to people when I met them that I was nervous around new people and to forgive me if I appeared a bit shy or if I had the urge to run away once in a while, they were usually very understanding. I still do it now in a way, I will just wander off into a world of my own sometimes and if somebody doesn't know you, they can mistake that for being ignorant or rude. But again, if you explain it briefly, the majority will be understanding. There will always be the odd idiot that will try to knock your confidence for their own weird pleasure of watching you squirm, not a pleasant experience, but in time you'll get more and more used to it.
You have my sympathies that you're still going through it. Something to consider though, a lot of the meetups you see on here are very easy going and there are some great people. They understand fully if you want to be by yourself whilst at the same time being very welcoming if you want a chat. There are some genuinely nice people here who might be able to help you bridge the gap with the odd meetup every couple of months... and in fairness, what can help enormously is having somewhere that doesn't feel quite so open as a street or a supermarket. Blimey, it took me 18 months to get into a supermarket and even then I wouldn't speak to anyone or look them in the eye. Again, not pleasant, but you can get to the other side of it eventually.
I too have suffered with clinical depression - it is not fun!
However I am soon to participate in running a trial to see if Bushcraft will be one of the "Therapies" that will be offered to our local Mental Health Drop -in group.
I will (with help) be running the session at the Care Farm where I work (I also do a bit at the Drop-in centre). Pilots for other "Therapies" are also going to be run.
I firmly believe that being out in the woods has helped me in the past and that others may well find it helpful.
However I am soon to participate in running a trial to see if Bushcraft will be one of the "Therapies" that will be offered to our local Mental Health Drop -in group.
I will (with help) be running the session at the Care Farm where I work (I also do a bit at the Drop-in centre). Pilots for other "Therapies" are also going to be run.
I firmly believe that being out in the woods has helped me in the past and that others may well find it helpful.
Sounds like a brilliant idea. If there is anything I can do to be of help John, please let me know. Materials, signage, anything like that... more than happy to help out.
Sorted and ready to go - thanks all the same
No worries... would be interested in how it goes. Given the reduction in services locally it'd be interesting to see if something similar would work up here.
Speaking from experience I think many if not most people in their darkest spots would be hard pressed to follow that prescription. I think it's more of a preventative treatment really, I know from our first Moot this year how it altered my head for the better. There were no negative thoughts, I wasn't even the least bit cynical (which is unheard of!) and on top of this I felt great physically too. A regular dose of nature could go a long way to staving off the descent into depression, for me it's something to use along side what I learnt in CBT.
I sincerely hope you're able to get out for your own dose of nature soon.
I suffer with anxiety and clinical depression I just love to get out into the woods it's so calming dose anyone else do this and has it helped long term only thing is when I can't get out its not good
Back in July, a study was published from the UK regarding depression. 4,000 clinical cases on file.
They began to take 300mg Magnesium citrate simple supplement daily. Fixed 1/2 of them. I kid you not.
Since it's both benign and cheap and I was progressively feeling worse and worse ( so bad, I noticed).
Complaints during medical appointments did absolutely nothing.
Aug 01, I began with 1 x 150mg cap of Magnesium citrate.
Day 14, I noticed that my disposition had improved and it stayed that way.
Day 30, no change so started 2 x 150mg.
Appetite improved, sleeping improved, disposition stayed cheerful.
Turns out that various combinations of meds can flush Mg++ out of tissues and it won't show in blood electrolytes.
Adding extra is not an overdose as the loss continues. Inexpensive, over the counter supplement.
I did enjoy teaching biochemistry to medical students. I'm happy (!!) to be retired all these years, too.
But honestly, there come days when you have to look after yourself.
There's all kinds of wild wilderness just minutes from my house.
Going out was dull. And that puzzled me with a lifetime of leaping about in the bush.
Listen to yourselves if just wilderness is not quite enough.
They began to take 300mg Magnesium citrate simple supplement daily. Fixed 1/2 of them. I kid you not.
Since it's both benign and cheap and I was progressively feeling worse and worse ( so bad, I noticed).
Complaints during medical appointments did absolutely nothing.
Aug 01, I began with 1 x 150mg cap of Magnesium citrate.
Day 14, I noticed that my disposition had improved and it stayed that way.
Day 30, no change so started 2 x 150mg.
Appetite improved, sleeping improved, disposition stayed cheerful.
Turns out that various combinations of meds can flush Mg++ out of tissues and it won't show in blood electrolytes.
Adding extra is not an overdose as the loss continues. Inexpensive, over the counter supplement.
I did enjoy teaching biochemistry to medical students. I'm happy (!!) to be retired all these years, too.
But honestly, there come days when you have to look after yourself.
There's all kinds of wild wilderness just minutes from my house.
Going out was dull. And that puzzled me with a lifetime of leaping about in the bush.
Listen to yourselves if just wilderness is not quite enough.
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I think its important to remember that a walk in the woods is not for everyone, there are many ways to relieve stress and anxiety, some people play golf, go fishing, knit, watch TV, look at forums,whatever you can do to take your mind off things works.
There are too many pressures in society today, I think the world would be a better place without the bombardment we get from the TV in the likes of false News, Adverts about making sure your family don't suffer financially when you die, PPI, Charities, ( I have nothing against charities) social media,and the like, obviously we can always turn the TV and PC/Phone off grab a good book and escape into that.
Regarding the news item being discussed I don't know why they thought standing buy a busy main road, and a peaceful walk in the woods could be compared when measuring stress levels etc, to me it would be quite obvious that somewhere quiet and peaceful would be better than walking alongside a busy road. I tend not to put much credence on these types of studies
Its just a pity that no matter what you find to do to relieve stress, is costly, especially hobbies and other changes, and that alone can make it stressful.
There are too many pressures in society today, I think the world would be a better place without the bombardment we get from the TV in the likes of false News, Adverts about making sure your family don't suffer financially when you die, PPI, Charities, ( I have nothing against charities) social media,and the like, obviously we can always turn the TV and PC/Phone off grab a good book and escape into that.
Regarding the news item being discussed I don't know why they thought standing buy a busy main road, and a peaceful walk in the woods could be compared when measuring stress levels etc, to me it would be quite obvious that somewhere quiet and peaceful would be better than walking alongside a busy road. I tend not to put much credence on these types of studies
Its just a pity that no matter what you find to do to relieve stress, is costly, especially hobbies and other changes, and that alone can make it stressful.
Being outdoors helps more that just those with depression. Obviously with the proviso you're well enough to get outdoors.
Personally no depression or anxiety issues (everyone gets anxious but not to a debilitating level of course). I did try getting an appointment over other mental issues / symptoms. Unfortunately round here they seem to think the only mental health condition an adult can have is depression or anxiety issues. So I had a polite 45 minute argument with a telephone referral service where I had to convince them I wasn't depressed. The lady on the end of the line agreed that I really needed a referral for testing for a disorder not served by their service. She looked through her system for a service that might help. Couldn't find it. Went away to speak to her supervisor, then manager. She called back half an hour later to say they didn't know of any service that could help me NHS mental health services for you.
Anyway I am confident I know my demon's name and learnt to cope with it. I have always found the outdoors helped me but it's only after I realised my issues that I understood why.
For me the outdoors concentrated the mind completely on what I was doing. Usually necessary because I was throwing myself down waterfalls in a plastic boat or rock climbing / scrambling with a fear of heights. For me concentration of outdoor activities helps but the fresh air and beauty of the lakes, Scotland or Wales helps (mountainous areas of said nations obviously).
Anyway, these mental health stories come up at least every couple of years. They're simplistic and purely about the media sites filling their sites with content. The science behind the matter will be heavily glossed over. They're articles to be ignored IMHO.
Personally no depression or anxiety issues (everyone gets anxious but not to a debilitating level of course). I did try getting an appointment over other mental issues / symptoms. Unfortunately round here they seem to think the only mental health condition an adult can have is depression or anxiety issues. So I had a polite 45 minute argument with a telephone referral service where I had to convince them I wasn't depressed. The lady on the end of the line agreed that I really needed a referral for testing for a disorder not served by their service. She looked through her system for a service that might help. Couldn't find it. Went away to speak to her supervisor, then manager. She called back half an hour later to say they didn't know of any service that could help me NHS mental health services for you.
Anyway I am confident I know my demon's name and learnt to cope with it. I have always found the outdoors helped me but it's only after I realised my issues that I understood why.
For me the outdoors concentrated the mind completely on what I was doing. Usually necessary because I was throwing myself down waterfalls in a plastic boat or rock climbing / scrambling with a fear of heights. For me concentration of outdoor activities helps but the fresh air and beauty of the lakes, Scotland or Wales helps (mountainous areas of said nations obviously).
Anyway, these mental health stories come up at least every couple of years. They're simplistic and purely about the media sites filling their sites with content. The science behind the matter will be heavily glossed over. They're articles to be ignored IMHO.
I'm with you on this one as I never had any issues with MH. A bit stressed at times, sure, but then I find that sitting QUIETLY in my hammock watching wildlife amongst the trees, makes me literally push stress out of my head and re-aligning so called important stuff into a not so important drawer.
Works for me BUT not for everyone!!
The crazy thing ( imo) is that somebody funded this research.
It has been known for centuies that a visit in Nature is beneficial for our well bring.
Organisations like Scouts, Pioneers, KDF ( Kraft Durch Freude) ‘itlerjugend, all were based on this knowledge.
It has been known for centuies that a visit in Nature is beneficial for our well bring.
Organisations like Scouts, Pioneers, KDF ( Kraft Durch Freude) ‘itlerjugend, all were based on this knowledge.
I'm not sure if it's a Chinese or Japanese concept. But they call it forest bathing. I have been through some pretty stressful events over the past few years. There was a time where everyone wanted me to go into a mental health unit and put me on drugs. I refused and got outside into nature. At times it still affects me a lot and I get very anxious and scared. But I know what my problems are and I do use vitamin suppliments if I feel myself slipping and go out into the woods. I find a place to talk out loud unheard. Cry scream whatever it takes. Sometimes it's just about feeling safe to get it all out. Simplistic in many ways but it works for me. And it's drug free and it's not all written down in some strangers notes to be pulled out and used against me in the future... part of my paranoia perhaps or just self preservation and common sense. Anyway I feel better. It's OK to feel bad about things and struggle with them. I keep telling myself it won't kill me just make me stronger. With some setbacks now and then I feel it has. I still have moments of panic and struggle with certain situations. I cannot work but I fill my time with good food gardening making things and whatever makes me feel good. Even if it's a fancy for a bar of chocolate. Be good to yourself. My drumming group is fantastic for lifting the spirit!!!
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