Hi, I have just joined an outdoor education centre which has fire lighting as part of our sessions and we have around 50 of the traditional steels to use with flint which we gather locally. A lot of the steels don't work anymore and we are about to replace them but as a charity I am trying to save us some money. Do the steels get worn out? Can they be refurbished, retreated, retempered, recoated? Or is it likely that the flints we are using are too blunt? They were probably cheap when we bought them but if they worked once then I am guessing they shouldn't have 'run out' within a few years. Any advice on this would be appreciated. Thanks
Can Steels Get Worn Out?
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The sharp, hard, flint scrapes a piece off the iron, but in doing so it's fast and full on energy, (the strike) and that makes the ripped off metal 'spark' red hot.
Are you sure you have flint ? and not chert ?....good chert is as good a mediocre flint, but poor chert just isn't hard enough.
Look for the classic signs on broken flint, the concoidal fractures, etc., the edges ought to be sharp, sharp enough to easily cut skin.
If they're not, break the edge again until it is.
I know people who make fire with broken glass and a steel; it just needs to be sharp and hard enough to scratch off the metal quickly enough to cause that spark.
Steels do wear done, but they are worn away worn done, as in nothing left of them, and that takes years and years of use to do so.
Are you sure you have flint ? and not chert ?....good chert is as good a mediocre flint, but poor chert just isn't hard enough.
Look for the classic signs on broken flint, the concoidal fractures, etc., the edges ought to be sharp, sharp enough to easily cut skin.
If they're not, break the edge again until it is.
I know people who make fire with broken glass and a steel; it just needs to be sharp and hard enough to scratch off the metal quickly enough to cause that spark.
Steels do wear done, but they are worn away worn done, as in nothing left of them, and that takes years and years of use to do so.
Depends a bit on the type of steel used. Usually, the steel is a high carbon, low alloy and it would be fully quenched so all the area that you strike would be hard. Then the only issue is that over time the striking face gets grooved and ridged, which in my experience makes it less good for striking sparks. The fix for this is to grind the striking face flat again, can be done with an angle grinder at a low angle with care, or a belt sander. By hand would be laborious. I would try that before replacing.
I suppose there is a chance that really cheap, imported steels, might be only case hardened and over time the hard case is worn away. You might try filing the striking face. Properly hard steel should just skate a file, no bite. If you have worn through a case hardening, the file might be expected to bite somewhat.
Flint does blunt and need to be re-knapped regularly to refresh the sharp edge.
I suppose there is a chance that really cheap, imported steels, might be only case hardened and over time the hard case is worn away. You might try filing the striking face. Properly hard steel should just skate a file, no bite. If you have worn through a case hardening, the file might be expected to bite somewhat.
Flint does blunt and need to be re-knapped regularly to refresh the sharp edge.
Two different things.
The flint and steel chips flecks of hot oxidising iron onto your tinder. It is possible to get hot chips of flint using two flints but it’s a lot of work.
Ferrocerium just requires something sharp that will flake off very thin chips/flakes that can oxidise in the air. They also require energy / effort to create friction heat. I’ve never seen anything other than iron or steel strikers but I suppose a ceramic knife could work if it met the above criteria. (I think.)
I have had to “sharpen“ the back of my SS Opinel but then I use it for all sorts of scraping and smoothing not just for ferro rods. I’ve watched sparks of ferro burn on the knife blade so perhaps a softer metal scraper can wear or burn.
The flint and steel chips flecks of hot oxidising iron onto your tinder. It is possible to get hot chips of flint using two flints but it’s a lot of work.
Ferrocerium just requires something sharp that will flake off very thin chips/flakes that can oxidise in the air. They also require energy / effort to create friction heat. I’ve never seen anything other than iron or steel strikers but I suppose a ceramic knife could work if it met the above criteria. (I think.)
I have had to “sharpen“ the back of my SS Opinel but then I use it for all sorts of scraping and smoothing not just for ferro rods. I’ve watched sparks of ferro burn on the knife blade so perhaps a softer metal scraper can wear or burn.
Short answer, yes, you can use iron, although steel works better
Examining Pyrite, Iron and Flint: The Fire Makers
Pieces of flint and pyrite, the key materials of early percussion fire making, were found along with one of the oldest and best preserved human mummies ever discovered.
www.rockngem.com
Wrought Iron Identification
wroughtworks.com
I think know what might be the issue here, some steel strikers sold are case hardened very low carbon steel. Case hardening is a heat treatment process that hardens the surface of a metal substrate while maintaining a softer core, the act of hitting the flint will wear the surface treatment.
A good steel striker will work with rounded edges and bluntish flint, and you will still get sparks.....
So it is likely no use messing with them....go to a car boot fair, and buy a load of 'old' worn files (10p to 50p each normally) they are likely good to go as is? Avoid any plastic handled files....these are case hardened.
Hit them with a hammer to break them up to smaller sizes and done.
A good steel striker will work with rounded edges and bluntish flint, and you will still get sparks.....
So it is likely no use messing with them....go to a car boot fair, and buy a load of 'old' worn files (10p to 50p each normally) they are likely good to go as is? Avoid any plastic handled files....these are case hardened.
Hit them with a hammer to break them up to smaller sizes and done.
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Agreed. It's very likely that they are simply case hardened in which case they'll have had a very thin hard layer in the first place.
The other possibility is that they are good steel that was laser cut. I've had steels laser cut in the past for a chap over in Canada and they came back with a hard layer on the outer edge. I can only assume they were cooled as they were cut.
You'll be able to test this by chucking one into a fire. Let it get a nice orange heat and then quench in oil. Clean the surface of the steel then try and strike it. IF you don't get anything try again but quench in water. If you still don't get anything then as suggested above get some old files and chop them up into useable lengths and go from there.
All the best
Andy
would it be possible to take a case hardened file/ striker and to redo the heat treatment?!
good to know as i've some old files (they don't last very long in our tropical climate :-( ) which i'm planning to repurpose...
I’ve run into the same issue with fire steels before. They can definitely wear out, especially if they’ve been used a lot. I’ve tried cleaning and sharpening them, but sometimes it’s just a matter of the steel being too far gone. It might be worth checking the flints too—if they’re too dull, that could be part of the problem. I’d suggest trying a few different brands to see if you get better results.
Strange thread. The original poster came, posted, presumably read the replies from December 2023, and has not been on the forum since.
Falstaff then posted in August 2024, with a different but related question.
Continuing to reply to the original question might add to the knowledge base of the forum, but suggesting remedies for the OP is a waste of time.
Falstaff then posted in August 2024, with a different but related question.
Continuing to reply to the original question might add to the knowledge base of the forum, but suggesting remedies for the OP is a waste of time.
I bought a steel and flints in a nice bag from John at the winter moot and I was getting great sparks, but the steel snapped when I was practising with it (no reflection or criticism of John/his kit).
I bought some old lever irons, but cannot get a spark or any life from them. Hence my original question. I also now need to practise some flint knapping to get some more sparking edges.
I bought some old lever irons, but cannot get a spark or any life from them. Hence my original question. I also now need to practise some flint knapping to get some more sparking edges.
That's very kind of you John and thank you, but I kind of have a hankering to try to "make " one myself first.Let me have your address and I will get a new steel off to you
