Buying my first sleeping bag, Snugpack or something else?

[MayoMan]

Hi everyone, I may have left it a bit late in the year but I am looking to go out bike touring. Hopefully sometime in September. I'm slowly putting together all the gear I need, including panniers and some clothing.

However, I feel I may have a case of analysis paralysis when it comes to picking a sleeping bag. Ideally, I would have one sleeping bag that covers the vast majority of the year in Ireland probably likes the western half of the UK. It doesn't really get that cold. The majority of the year, freezing temperatures wouldn't occur that much. Well, that's what the data from Met Eireann says anyway.

For example, here is some of the data from a weather station near where I plan to go on my first adventure.

Met Eireann monthly weather data

So taking that into account and presuming I avoid the coldest months would I be able to get away with a three season bag?

I have read here that one user claims he has the Snugpack special forces 1 along with the bivy bag plus a base layer down to temperatures near freezing without being uncomfortable, and of the whole system was fairly light at just over 1.1 kg or thereabouts.

There are also bags by Carinthia that I could consider although they are at significantly more expensive compared to the bags by Snugpack and they are also heavier. I don't mind spending a bit of money if it means I can get good sleep plus I hate today's throwaway culture so want to get an item that will last even if I end up selling it on to someone else if I don't like it.

I am a side sleeper so would appreciate a bag where I can lie on my side and be comfortable.

Since I am here also. Would I be able to get some advice on a sleeping mat. I have a UL 80 air mattress which the manufacturers claim has an R value of 1.6 (I'm sceptical of this claim). I'm thinking maybe I can combine it with a foam mat and it will be good enough for my intended use. I could also send it back to Amazon and get something else. If you have any suggestions?

 

[mrmike]

Snugpak sleeping bags (whilst reasonably good quality) are fairly well known to have over-rated comfort temperature ratings.
Get one that is warmer than you think you need if going snugpak.

Hope this helps

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[MayoMan]

Snugpak sleeping bags (whilst reasonably good quality) are fairly well known to have over-rated comfort temperature ratings.
Get one that is warmer than you think you need if going snugpak.

Hope this helps

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Thanks, that's kind of the impression I got from reading around a bit online, although I do wonder if the UK made bags are slightly better. My understanding is the special forces bags use a slightly different type of insulation.

So I guess if I really wanted one of the special forces bags I should get the one that is rated to -7.

Is it worth also getting a bivvy bag along with a silk liner?

Also, anyone know how much space it takes up in liters? ChatGPT gave me A volume of 14 litres if it is cube shaped or 11 litres if it is shaped like a cylinder.

Also found a much better site for giving average temperatures. This one displays the lowest temperature at night time.

https://www.worldweatheronline.com/iascaigh-weather-averages/sligo/ie.aspx

Finally, I want to say thank you to @Erbswurst I've enjoyed reading your posts and feel like I have learnt a lot. Are you still happy using the special forces one with the bivy bag?

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[Chris]

Snugpak sleeping bags (whilst reasonably good quality) are fairly well known to have over-rated comfort temperature ratings.
Get one that is warmer than you think you need if going snugpak.

Hope this helps

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Having just spent the night in a Special Forces 1, with a ‘comfort’ rating down to 5C, I can confirm this. Got down to about 10C last night and I was getting chilly, and I usually run hot.

 

[Chris]

Thanks, that's kind of the impression I got from reading around a bit online, although I do wonder if the UK made bags are slightly better. My understanding is the special forces bags use a slightly different type of insulation.

So I guess if I really wanted one of the special forces bags I should get the one that is rated to -7.

Is it worth also getting a bivvy bag along with a silk liner?

Also, anyone know how much space it takes up in liters? ChatGPT gave me A volume of 14 litres if it is cube shaped or 11 litres if it is shaped like a cylinder.

Also found a much better site for giving average temperatures. This one displays the lowest temperature at night time.

https://www.worldweatheronline.com/iascaigh-weather-averages/sligo/ie.aspx

Finally, I want to say thank you to @Erbswurst I've enjoyed reading your posts and feel like I have learnt a lot. Are you still happy using the special forces one with the bivy bag?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

I have the SF 1 and 2.

The 2 was fine for the Winter Moot, but that got down to maybe -1. It’s quite bulky though. Honestly I’d probably go for a decent down bag, like the Rab Ascent 900 as you can use it as a duvet when it’s warmer and a very comfortable sleeping bag when it’s sub zero out.

 

[slaine_23]

I wouldn’t bother with a 3 season at all, get something warmer, you’ll need it. Ideally get one with the iso rating as most manufacturers lie. Have been out in a tent, a hut and a hammock this year, various places north of Mayo -fine in the summer but really even in May I regretted having only a 3 season bag, even with extra wool blanket layer. You can open a bag to make it cooler, harder to close a crappy one to make it warmer.

 

[hughtrimble]

Since I am here also. Would I be able to get some advice on a sleeping mat. I have a UL 80 air mattress which the manufacturers claim has an R value of 1.6 (I'm sceptical of this claim). I'm thinking maybe I can combine it with a foam mat and it will be good enough for my intended use. I could also send it back to Amazon and get something else. If you have any suggestions?

I really like the Trekology UL80, and use it in conjunction with a foam mat to protect it as well as to act as a back-up if the air mat fails. It is not a warm pad, and indeed the R value indicated doesn't claim that it is either. I switch to a very warm Exped Synmat Winter UL LW for the colder months, and that pad is simply too warm for me in the summer even with a thin bag. I don't think you should return the UL80, but rather get a warmer pad for other times of year, if that is possible within your budget. I'm really not sure if a 'do it all' air pad exists, so I'd go with the versatility of two.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Temp ratings should be taken as just a rough guide. Other things have to be taken into consideration too. Simple things like; dehydration, not consuming enough calories or fatigue, will all have an effect on a sleeping bag's perceived warmth. Being in a tent as opposed to under a tarp or in a hammock will also give different results.
Remember too that ratings on outdoor gear are estimated under specific & controlled conditions, the great outdoors has so many variables that it tends to reek havoc with stats & sales pitches. And we're all different of course, 2 people can be sleeping side by side in the same sleeping bags & one could be freezing & the other toasty.
If you're only getting one bag then like the others suggest, get a real 4 season bag & then you'll have all bases covered & won't have to worry if the weather turns colder than the graphs indicate.

 

[MayoMan]

Thanks everyone for your feedback I'm starting to lean away from Snugpac and instead leaning towards Carinthia instead because they use the ISO certified temperature rating, whilst Snugpac appears to give a rating just based on their subjective experience or at least that is my understanding.

Also, since I am not based in the UK. I'll have to import the Snugpac. If I'm not mistaken, the admin charge which is all I will hopefully have to pay on top of paying the VAT of 23% is €10 so the total cost comes out to just over €208.

So I was looking at the Carinthia defence 1, which has a comfort rating down to 4°C
so, possibly with a liner and or base layers should be able to take it down to freezing, or slightly below if I ever end up in that situation.

One thing I have noticed is Snugpac's temperature rating is inconsistent between bags. For example, see below. I have emailed them to ask what accounts for the difference and I'll report back what they say when and if I hear back. Anyway, you can see the example below for what I mean.

Softie® 6 WGTE

Temperature rating low

-5°C / 23°F

Temperature rating comfort

0°C / 32°F

1200g / 42oz

Special Forces 1 WGTE

Temperature rating low

0°C / 32°F

Temperature rating comfort

5°C / 41°F

1200g / 42oz

 

[hughtrimble]

I'm not up to date with Carinthia's models, but have you checked to see if any of the Dutch military surplus bags made by Carinthia (not Fecsa) meet your needs? They'll likely be much cheaper, simply because they're not the civilian version, and they're used condition (to a lesser or greater degree). I have the Carinthia-made Dutch military sleep system, consisting of the cotton liner, spring/summer bag and autumn/winter bags that all combine together for really very cold conditions. It is a daftly heavy set-up, and one I only use for car camping, but may be worth investigating it or something similar rather than buying the retail Carinthias.

 

[MayoMan]

I'm not up to date with Carinthia's models, but have you checked to see if any of the Dutch military surplus bags made by Carinthia (not Fecsa) meet your needs? They'll likely be much cheaper, simply because they're not the civilian version, and they're used condition (to a lesser or greater degree). I have the Carinthia-made Dutch military sleep system, consisting of the cotton liner, spring/summer bag and autumn/winter bags that all combine together for really very cold conditions. It is a daftly heavy set-up, and one I only use for car camping, but may be worth investigating it or something similar rather than buying the retail Carinthias.

Thank you, I will have a look into it. To be honest though, I would like to get a new sleeping bag, and I think I might only need just the one to see me through the majority of the year.

I may however pick up the cotton liner second hand as I feel the prices for the new ones are ridiculously overpriced.

Last question I promise but what does the defense one pair with? It is called the defense one top. So I presume it must go on top of another bag.

Also, is it worth paying €70 for the black fleece liner? The one with the centre zip I can see it being handy if I ever get too cold and possibly in high summer doing as a sleeping bag just on its own. Or should I not bother and just get a silk liner instead?

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[hughtrimble]

Last question I promise

Keep asking! There's no limit to the knowledge on here, but you have reached mine as I've only ever used the Dutch military set from Carinthia; not familiar with the fleece liners. The Defence 1 doesn't look to have the zippered mozzie panel that the milsurp one does so perhaps there's a different civilian equivalent.

 

[MayoMan]

I think the defense one is more designed for environments where there wouldn't be that many mosquitoes if those type of environments exist. Unlike the tropical bag with the mosquito net built in, The defense one has a more waterproof outer whereas the tropical bag has a more permeable outer layer presumably to help facilitate moisture from the person inside, escaping to the environment which is obviously needed more in hotter environments.

I ordered the bag from the Finnish company in the screenshot below. I think I got a good price. I'm thinking of ordering a silk liner from decathlon along with some other stuff that I need.

I sent Corinthia an email about how the defence one fits with other bags and I was impressed about how quickly they responded and the level of detail they went into. Although being sales, they did try and upsell me on a few of their other more expensive products.

For some reason the copy and paste on my phone isn't working too well. Perhaps because their email was in German, because I sent them an email in German using chatgpt as a translator, which actually does a really good job.

Finally I was going to order the fleece liner but it was 75 euro and I had a choice either the green one with a full zip on the left side or they do a black version which has a three-quarter length zip.

Does anyone have a link where I can buy the army Corinthia version?

All I have been able to find is the one made by the Spanish company and unfortunately it's at least 200 grams heavier than the original version.

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[hughtrimble]

Does anyone have a link where I can buy the army Corinthia version?

I got mine from this company, but the website appears to be down: http://www.marwiarmystore.nl/

At the time (years ago) they recommended phoning them to get the Carinthia gear as by the time they went live on the website they sold instantly.

 

[Astrochicken]

As suggested by others, it can be very subjective, especially with regards to warmth and comfort, regardless of what the manufacturer claims.

For myself, I have a Mountain Equipment Helium 600, which is down filled. It's got a decent fill power despite being pretty light and can be compressed into a small stuff sack which came with it. I keep mine however stored in the much larger mesh storage cube which also came with it, as long-term storage under compression will destroy the ability of the insulation to return to form and assist with keeping you warm. I previously had a good Snugpack sleeping bag and failed to realise this point, so couldn't understand why it increasingly underperformed over time, but it was my fault for storing it in the compression sack. You may already know this (sorry), but thought the storage aspect worth adding into the discussion beyond what option you eventually purchase.

I would also suggest that regardless of the sleeping bag you select, your warmth can be improved by the addition of a low-cost accessory - a wool beanie. Again you may already keep something like this handy but could not believe the difference one made for me on a 10 night camp in the woods down in Somerset a few months ago, when I'd expected it to be warm (British Summers…). Despite appropriate nightwear, ground mat and my sleeping bag, in the end the addition of a woollen beanie ("Idwal" by Alpkit) made the difference to getting good sleep. I too sleep on my side and don't like the mummifying of the sleeping bag 'hood' at the head as the fabric rustle wakes me up, but the beanie helped keep my head warm without interfering with sleep.

I suppose the sleep 'system' is the key - as you've identified by noting the importance of the ground insulation / padding layer. Having multiple components that work well to provide comfort, lift you off the heat-stealing ground, give insulating warmth and provide versatility depending on the environment and your camp setup means you can add / remove a single element without majorly compromising your sleep.