bushy knife design

[novembeRain]

I've recently taken up knife making and I'm churning out some nice bits of kit, they're not quite perfect yet but I'm getting there.

I get a lot of spare time at the moment as I'm sort of self employed so I got thinking that I could make knives / blanks and sell them for a bit of extra income. Obviously not as much as bernie, mick etc sell them for because they'll probably not be such a high standard, though obviously I'd do my best.

I would harden and temper the blank and could make them to spec if sent a template, but I thought it may be good to get some ideas as to what you look for in a bushcraft knife and, if anything, what you feel tends to be missing from them.

Any other suggestions? p.m. me if you'd prefer.

 

[Chainsaw]

It's a good idea, you'd certainly get some business from here if the price was right. Couple of things may help. If I was going to buy from you I'd like to see loads of good piccies of your work. You could maybe build up a portfolio of blades, to showcase your work and also hone (sorry! ) your skills. You could always sell these off afterwards or perhaps get them reviewed by the great and the good or even just send them out for constructive criticism. There's also probably a bit of a market for cheapish blanks for people to practice putting on handles etc. You may also want to upgrade your membership to maker status

Good luck with it anyway, it's always interesting to see photos sharp pointy things,

Cheers,

Alan

 

[novembeRain]

maker's status, hmm, sorry if I've trodden on someone's toes already :sad6:

This was intended as more of a guaging interest / info gathering thread though, for example if everybody jumped up and down saying they'd rather a knife had more curve to the blade then that would be taken on board and probably become part of a final design.

If everybody said "you're wasting your time because so many people have already done this" I'd give up and stick to doing it as a passtime.

Chainsaw said about an economical blank for people to try handleing themselves, that's the sort of thing I had in mind, along with probably something stronger (looking at least) than a mora but not silly money for newbies and people that want a tough knife without spending a fortune.

Anyway, thanks for the reply mate, I'll look into upgrading if it seems there'll be enough interest. Sorry mod's, money's literally that tight at the mo!

 

[Chainsaw]

I don't think you've done any toe treading yet, as far as I can make out, you only need to upgrade to a maker if you start selling them on a repeat basis check this thread also lets you post on the makers market. Only something to think about if you go ahead.

Cheers,

Alan

 

[Draven]

I've been thinking of selling knives as well, and from what I can tell, the single most important thing that all the popular makers seem to have is versatility. I wouldn't stick to any one style, if you have a new idea you might as well try it! Also worth noting that a lot of people who are into knife collecting will often go for something "different" as much as something that they think will become their primary user. Whether it is the grind, material, filework, handle material, profile etc people do seem to like things that are "unique". I'm not saying you should compromise practicality for looks, just something to think about! Some of the most eye-catching and appealing designs I've seen were only appealing and eye-catching because of the trimmings - handle material, filework, finish, etc.

Hope this helps mate!

Pete

 

[Shewie]

Do a bit of reading up NR as to what people are already using, there are so many different styles of blade and handle combis that it`s personal choice at the end of the day. I think you`ve got a good idea with offering a budget model as an alternative to the moras, but you`ve got to remember that they are hard to beat for the kind of money they fetch. I`d say have a bash at a few different styles and send them out for review like Chainsaw said.

Good luck with it anyway mate and I`ll happily field test for you

 

[C_Claycomb]

If everybody said "you're wasting your time because so many people have already done this" I'd give up and stick to doing it as a passtime.

I don't want to put you off knife making, the more the merrier in my book, but I think you could probably do with lowering your sights a little, or a reality check.

Everyone who starts making knives thinks that their first efforts are fantastic. But, unless you are a genius with extensive machining/craft experience, plus wide exposure to and use of knives...they probably won't be . Not really. Not from a commercial stand point. It is unlikely that anyone will tell you this to your face. Either the people you show will be ignorant of the quality available in the market (happened to me, happened to a friend and can be rather a bad thing) or they will want to encourage someone they see as having promise, or they just won't want to be rude.

I was told by quite a lot of people that my early knives were great. They weren't. :theyareon Some I was able to sell for what I thought they were worth. I don't think that I will ever be able to thank the people that bought them enough. Others I have never been able to sell. If you spend 10 hours on a knife, and can only sell it for £50-60 its not a great way of making money. If you do it because you like it, and you find that you are running out of places to stash the knives that you were going to make anyway, selling them for whatever you can make is great. If you are planning to make the knives with the intention of selling them and making money...thats a little harder.

As has been said, to do that here you would need to become a "Maker". It would also be a very good idea to familiarise yourself with the rules of advertising, and even more important, with the laws of knife use and carry within the UK. If anyone should know that stuff its someone making knives, if only for self preservation.

Design, fit, finish, and heat treating are things that come with practice and time.

I have seen a lot of knives sell poorly, or not at all, because basically the maker had a thought along the lines of..."Hey, that knife looks cool, I could make one of those, its going to be a challenge but it looks really interesting." They make it, and no one buys it because the maker didn't have a clear idea of what it would be for or how to use it. Designing with a clear purpose in mind is important to selling knives. It doesn't matter how well it is finished or heat treated if no one can imagine what they will really use it for, unless it is absolutely a piece of art work.

Many times I have seen the first half dozen knives, sometimes more, that a person makes are all derivatives of someone else's designs. Nothing wrong with drawing inspiration from the work of others, I am very guilty However. in the early days it does seem that the inspiration is drawn from a very narrow range of reference (hard to avoid except by the application of time in research) and that often there isn't yet a full understanding of why a design looks the way it does, or why certain features are there. This doesn't just apply to knives. If you know why every curve is there and how it will work every which way, it shows.

Taking your question on what people want in a knife. There are hundreds of discussions on this all over the internet. There are loads of threads here, on British Blades, on Blade Forums, Knife Forums, and Knife Networks. I am sure that people will tell you what they like on here, but there is so much more information out there waiting to be sifted. If you are serious, you gotta get reading. There is everything you need to know about steels, sawing, filing, grinding, drilling, heat treating, hand sanding, polishing, glues, pins, handle materials, finishes, and sharpening.

There is even a particularly good thread here which might be worth a read:
Fulltime Makers: Fears and Satisfaction

Sorry if it sounds like I am trying to put you off. I am not, but I would like you to avoid some of the pitfalls that I have hit, and make better progress than some of the other folk I know who have started in on knives for fun or profit.

Best of luck

 

[Shewie]

I don't want to put you off knife making, the more the merrier in my book, but I think you could probably do with lowering your sights a little, or a reality check.

Everyone who starts making knives thinks that their first efforts are fantastic. But, unless you are a genius with extensive machining/craft experience, plus wide exposure to and use of knives...they probably won't be . Not really. Not from a commercial stand point. It is unlikely that anyone will tell you this to your face. Either the people you show will be ignorant of the quality available in the market (happened to me, happened to a friend and can be rather a bad thing) or they will want to encourage someone they see as having promise, or they just won't want to be rude.

I was told by quite a lot of people that my early knives were great. They weren't. :theyareon Some I was able to sell for what I thought they were worth. I don't think that I will ever be able to thank the people that bought them enough. Others I have never been able to sell. If you spend 10 hours on a knife, and can only sell it for £50-60 its not a great way of making money. If you do it because you like it, and you find that you are running out of places to stash the knives that you were going to make anyway, selling them for whatever you can make is great. If you are planning to make the knives with the intention of selling them and making money...thats a little harder.

As has been said, to do that here you would need to become a "Maker". It would also be a very good idea to familiarise yourself with the rules of advertising, and even more important, with the laws of knife use and carry within the UK. If anyone should know that stuff its someone making knives, if only for self preservation.

Design, fit, finish, and heat treating are things that come with practice and time.

I have seen a lot of knives sell poorly, or not at all, because basically the maker had a thought along the lines of..."Hey, that knife looks cool, I could make one of those, its going to be a challenge but it looks really interesting." They make it, and no one buys it because the maker didn't have a clear idea of what it would be for or how to use it. Designing with a clear purpose in mind is important to selling knives. It doesn't matter how well it is finished or heat treated if no one can imagine what they will really use it for, unless it is absolutely a piece of art work.

Many times I have seen the first half dozen knives, sometimes more, that a person makes are all derivatives of someone else's designs. Nothing wrong with drawing inspiration from the work of others, I am very guilty However. in the early days it does seem that the inspiration is drawn from a very narrow range of reference (hard to avoid except by the application of time in research) and that often there isn't yet a full understanding of why a design looks the way it does, or why certain features are there. This doesn't just apply to knives. If you know why every curve is there and how it will work every which way, it shows.

Taking your question on what people want in a knife. There are hundreds of discussions on this all over the internet. There are loads of threads here, on British Blades, on Blade Forums, Knife Forums, and Knife Networks. I am sure that people will tell you what they like on here, but there is so much more information out there waiting to be sifted. If you are serious, you gotta get reading. There is everything you need to know about steels, sawing, filing, grinding, drilling, heat treating, hand sanding, polishing, glues, pins, handle materials, finishes, and sharpening.

There is even a particularly good thread here which might be worth a read:
Fulltime Makers: Fears and Satisfaction

Sorry if it sounds like I am trying to put you off. I am not, but I would like you to avoid some of the pitfalls that I have hit, and make better progress than some of the other folk I know who have started in on knives for fun or profit.

Best of luck

Great advice Chris

 

[novembeRain]

lol, that's me told then and some good points.

The point was, more than anything though, I accept my knives aren't perfect, because I've not been doing it long. That's why they'd be cheap, but that's not to say they wouldn't be good, the knife I made for myself is that hard near the point that it blunted a file yet still flexible.

I'm not arguing with you, Chris, I agree with what you're trying to say, the point was the knives would be cheaper because of my lack of experience but wouldn't be cwap - they'd be made as well as I possibly could, and made to last, I'm not a complete novice, before becoming a hgv driver I worked as a welder, fabricator so I'm used to working with steel.

I can also see your point about blade design, I meant from a purely bushcraft point of view, is there something I could do to the design that would be popular with you guys, even if it was as simple as making sure the spine of the blade was nice and square for the firesteel.

Again, I'm not arguing with you, I don't think I really said what I was on about.

To a certain extent, it'd be making knives for practice and selling them, but the buyers tell me what to make before I've even started, I'd get a variety of designs to practice on and more of a reason to make them than just for a passtime.

Thanks for the advise anyway guys.

 

[C_Claycomb]

The problem with asking for people to suggest what they want is that you will get a lot of conflicting thoughts and in some regards many of these thoughts will be irrelevant. Someone might think that their Woodlore is the best thing, so they will say they like a spear point, a fairly straight edge rising to a pointy point, a handle shaped for a hammer grip, rounded butt, rounded handle, about 1" wide mid grip, 5/32 thick, O-1 with a single bevel.

There are however a lot of people making that style, it sparked a lot of similar knives and now many people have swung back and like things with flat or convex grinds. Or some have and some haven't

The Skookum has a straight spine and handle and a 1/8th blade with a continuous curve. The butt is flat and capped in hardened steel.

There are people who have qued up for both and they don't share a curve in common beyond the single bevel.

I have finally found a style that people appear to like. Its taken quite a few years and it draw on forms seen in many production knives. No one thread, however long or detailed would have told me how to get there though. That is why I think that the best route for finding out what people like is the slow and tedious approach of reading many threads and browsing many pictures, watching many Sales threads to see what sells and how quickly, then moving heaven and earth to get to the next KnivesUK show so that you can handle a lot of knives quickly, then see what is still sitting there at the end of the show!

Use your knife a LOT, use if for everything that you read about people using their knives for. I had a knife that I liked a lot, it was made in a style like to one of the well known American makers and it was great for cleaning game and a lot of other chores that I did. I only found the short comings of the design when I moved outside my normal range of activites and started carving spoons, feather sticks and fire boards. A poor example I know, but using your own knife will tell you a great deal and is better than listening to other folk. Especially the ones on forums :borgsmile

If you ask enough people whether they want the spine of their knives square or rounded you will get an equal number of responses both ways. If you understand why they are making those choices, then you can make your choice to best compliment and enhance the other features you have on that knife.

For the heat treating stuff, keep an eye out for Kevin Cashen on the US knife forums, and Sword Forums.